Glueing Headlining?

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Quandary

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In our aft cabin the lining to the cockpit side is that rippled slightly stretchy p.v.c. stuff glued directly to the grp and stretched to follow the shape of the moulding, it has been done very neatly with no visible joins. However at one concave aft corner it is coming away forming a large convex bubble about the size of a melon. If I squeeze the bubble it is hard, suggesting that it is airtight and there is gas or vapour behind it. I had hoped to puncture the bubble with a sharp craft knife making a couple of short slits to allow some adhesive to be injected behind and spread sufficiently to re-secure the covering. I suspect if I make cuts much longer than about 20mm. I will not be able to stretch the stuff enough to close the gaps again. I presume some heat or a high ambient temperature will make the lining more pliable?
Do you think this would work and if so what adhesive would you recommend. I originally thought of trying a spray glue but using a cartridge and gun might be less messy if I can spread the stuff around enough with the nozzle pushed through the slits. If I could find a suitable syringe with a bit of pvc tubing that might also work but glue already in a cartridge might be cleaner? I do not expect to be able to remove the original glue from either surface.
Any recommendations of suitable glue or technique would be welcome..
 
Quandary said:
In our aft cabin the lining to the cockpit side is that rippled slightly stretchy p.v.c. stuff glued directly to the grp and stretched to follow the shape of the moulding, it has been done very neatly with no visible joins. However at one concave aft corner it is coming away forming a large convex bubble about the size of a melon. If I squeeze the bubble it is hard, suggesting that it is airtight and there is gas or vapour behind it. I had hoped to puncture the bubble with a sharp craft knife making a couple of short slits to allow some adhesive to be injected behind and spread sufficiently to re-secure the covering. I suspect if I make cuts much longer than about 20mm. I will not be able to stretch the stuff enough to close the gaps again. I presume some heat or a high ambient temperature will make the lining more pliable?
Do you think this would work and if so what adhesive would you recommend. I originally thought of trying a spray glue but using a cartridge and gun might be less messy if I can spread the stuff around enough with the nozzle pushed through the slits. If I could find a suitable syringe with a bit of pvc tubing that might also work but glue already in a cartridge might be cleaner? I do not expect to be able to remove the original glue from either surface.
Any recommendations of suitable glue or technique would be welcome..
Click to expand...

Is it foam backed? If so, and if the bubble has appeared because the foam is disintegrating ("Westerly Blight") you're probably doomed. If not, I'd try making a very small hole in the middle and spraying in contact adhesive. Hawke House included some very good stuff when I bought a headlining kit from them.
 
Might be worth trying two holes.Connect a bike pump to one of them & try blowing the foam dust out so as to give the new glue a better chance to bond but I suspect you are still doomed in the long run as is anyone that tries that form of insulation.A complete & utter nightmare!
 
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No, it is not foam backed, it is textured sheet about 2mm. thick, stretchy enough to be formed around curved corners without wrinkles. Seems still to be in good condition (boat is 7 years old) The resistance of the bubble to pressure suggests that it has been lifted by air or gas pressure, perhaps the effect of the extremes of temperature we are subject to in the West of Scotland. (smiley?) I anticipate having to make several small cuts to cover as much of the void as possible. The head linings are similar stuff glued over removable plywood sheets while the hull lining is teak strips. An alternative is to make a single long cut and use a strip cut from the back of a lining panel to compensate for the stretch back, problem is I will only get one go at this and it is vulnerable to an unsightly mess if I get it wrong. Other joints in this area have been butted very neatly, I presume overlapping a patch, though possibly much easier is likely to look amateurish.
I will visit Hawke House website as suggested; thanks Duck, but I am still also hoping for a recommendation from someone who has used and approved a suitable adhesive in cartridges.
 
Quandary said:
No, it is not foam backed, it is textured sheet about 2mm. thick, stretchy enough to be formed around curved corners without wrinkles. Seems still to be in good condition (boat is 7 years old) The resistance of the bubble to pressure suggests that it has been lifted by air or gas pressure, perhaps the effect of the extremes of temperature we are subject to in the West of Scotland. (smiley?) I anticipate having to make several small cuts to cover as much of the void as possible. The head linings are similar stuff glued over removable plywood sheets while the hull lining is teak strips. An alternative is to make a single long cut and use a strip cut from the back of a lining panel to compensate for the stretch back, problem is I will only get one go at this and it is vulnerable to an unsightly mess if I get it wrong. Other joints in this area have been butted very neatly, I presume overlapping a patch, though possibly much easier is likely to look amateurish.
I will visit Hawke House website as suggested; thanks Duck, but I am still also hoping for a recommendation from someone who has used and approved a suitable adhesive in cartridges.
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I've got a can of spray on adhesive left over from re lining my last boat- you're welcome to it. PM me where you are in Argyll and I'll get it to you.

It's the good stuff with all the nasty chemicals in it - the eco stuff doesnt stick....
 
Get a syringe and take the plunger out of it and pierce the bulge and see if it lets the air or what ever out.Then worry what to do.
 
Try heating gently with a hot air gun and then pressing back in to place, you may be lucky. If there is an air bubble I'm surprised it is that hard, a hyper dermic needle will release whatever's is in there without leaving a big hole. You could inject solvite wallpaper paste, massage it around and then apply pressure with something like a bean bag that will mould to the right shape and not apply undue pressure in one place.

Yoda
 
Cut a slit about 10mm long in the centre of the patch, put a piece of plastic pipe through the hole and attach it to a vacuum cleaner to remove any dust. Get a piece of thin plastic pipe, similar to what's on a can of WD40 attach it to the aerosol nozzle and insert it through the slit. Spray the adhesive in short bursts moving the position of the can each time, I would recommend using a high temperature adhesive such as Trim fix.
Details here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251435700289
 
Westerly Yachts had a major problem with headlings . I remember that there was a lot about this on the westerly owners web site -how to repair/renovate a few years ago . Might be worth looking on the site . Replacing the lining is quite tricky and therefore expensive . It is I believe caused by breakdown of the original adhesive
 
Thanks for all the advice; to clarify the problem a bit, the headlinings are not a problem, they are detachable, vinyl over plywood. The problem area is the curved, mainly vertical grp wall separating the aft cabin from the cockpit. The flat surfaces are adhering well (there is no foam backed vinyl on this boat, the Westerly problem was caused by the breakdown of the flexible foam backing to the vinyl they used, compounded by fixing it directly to overhead surfaces) My problem is the separation of the vinyl from the moulded sub-strata in two areas, concave curved corners where it has been applied under tension to form a smooth seamless surface. The builders (Finngulf) coat all interior grp inside their boats with flowcoat, which while it gives a nice wipe clean surface inside lockers and floor voids perhaps does not provide as good a bond as raw grp. On one small area the vinyl had been cut and butt jointed to follow the contours, this should be relatively easy to fix provided that the correct adhesive is chosen, if I can not get the butt joint to meet again without applying too much tension I will insert a narrow curved edge diamond of vinyl salvaged from behind a head lining panel and trim the meeting faces to it forming two butts rather than one, I would aspire to make this joint invisible, the original certainly was. The second area in the rear corner appears to have lifted under pressure from air or gas as it is like a small balloon. I want to try to avoid making a new joint here and was hoping to apply adhesive through tiny slits which I can close over. A generous forumite has offered me some aerosol adhesive and I intend to try to apply it using the technique suggested above by Bert T. I am hoping that I can do this without getting any glue on the exposed surfaces so will use masking tape and paper to protect the surfaces from sticky fingers. Before applying the adhesive in this area I am going to try puncturing to release pressure and warming with a redundant hair drier as suggested, there is a possibility that the surfaces may bond again with heat though this may not be a permanent solution. Since conditions locally have been quite cool and damp I will not start any of this until it gets warmer and less humid. If I learn anything useful when I do the job I will come back and report but it may not be for a month or two.
In the meantime I am grateful for the offers of advice and help, I hope no-one is disappointed that I have not followed their advice, but my proposed solution is a distillation of all the suggestions made and I might still finish up changing the method. I will investigate the properties of all the different adhesives suggested.
 
chrisb said:
Westerly Yachts had a major problem with headlings . I remember that there was a lot about this on the westerly owners web site -how to repair/renovate a few years ago . Might be worth looking on the site . Replacing the lining is quite tricky and therefore expensive . It is I believe caused by breakdown of the original adhesive
Click to expand...

The problem with Westerly headlining isn't the glue. It's the foam backing to the vinyl which starts disintegrating at 25 years old, leading to a pleasant "bedouin tent" effect. It's a straightforward but horrible job to replace it.

However, the OP has already confirmed (I asked) that this is not the problem; his vinyl has no foam backing.
 
First I would prick it with a tiny needle to see if the 'air' really is expellable

By all means try a heat gun on an unobtrusive bit somewhere. The vinyl may be thermosetting or it may want to shrink back worse ...
And if you inject glue, chandleries sell syringes in the epoxies area. And often an angled slit, flap or arrow head cut is less obtrusive than attacking with the knife at right angles to the surface..

A wooden stick jammed across the cabin will continue to compres the reglued vinyl into placexwhilstvit cures..

Other owners ( association ?) might have addressed this already of course...
 
Blueboatman said:
First I would prick it with a tiny needle to see if the 'air' really is expellable

By all means try a heat gun on an unobtrusive bit somewhere. The vinyl may be thermosetting or it may want to shrink back worse ...
And if you inject glue, chandleries sell syringes in the epoxies area. And often an angled slit, flap or arrow head cut is less obtrusive than attacking with the knife at right angles to the surface..

A wooden stick jammed across the cabin will continue to compres the reglued vinyl into placexwhilstvit cures..

Other owners ( association ?) might have addressed this already of course...
Click to expand...

I've used old sail battens (with thin wooden spreaders) inside the saloon to maintain temporary pressure on things being stuck down- works quite well :)
 
JumbleDuck said:
The problem with Westerly headlining isn't the glue. It's the foam backing to the vinyl which starts disintegrating at 25 years old, leading to a pleasant "bedouin tent" effect. It's a straightforward but horrible job to replace it.
Click to expand...

Just be fair (and apologies for thread drift) it's not just Westerly's that suffer. My mid 80s Gib'Sea is dropping its headlining more rapidly than I'm losing my hair. The advantage of the problem on Westerlys is that so many were built that it is worth organisations marketing headline replacement kits. That's not true, unfortunately, for Gibseas, at least in the UK.
 
I have the bedouin tent affect on a Rowan 22. Foam is all disintegrating dust under the lining. What is the simplest way to sort, could I get away with No Nails adhesive and just try and glue it back up? If not what would be the best solution.
 
joyfull said:
I have the bedouin tent affect on a Rowan 22. Foam is all disintegrating dust under the lining. What is the simplest way to sort, could I get away with No Nails adhesive and just try and glue it back up? If not what would be the best solution.
Click to expand...

Hawke House sell sheets of the foam with adhesive on both sides. To use it you have to get rid of the old dusty foam, and then it will stick on to the fibreglass hull, and the vinyl sticks back in place. You,ll need a sharp Stanley blade to cut it.

If you give them a ring they are always very helpful.
 
I see they have 1mm and 5mm double sided, what are the pro's and cons of either other than price.

I have just read somewhere that rolls of standard carpet underlay with moisture/thermal barrier would work, only problem then is that would have to apply the glue on both sides (or just fill the gaps and paint the underlay once applied rather than reusing the old vinyl.

If i reuse the ole headlingingm, I presume that I pull down all the old headliing, wash it in a bath tub and then re-use if it comes up clean.
 
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I used the 5mm which was a bit tricky to bend round some bits, but I should think that the 1mm would crack and/or split more easily. The 5mm would give marginally more insulation as well.

I should think if you pull all the headline off, you will have one hell of a job getting it back on in the correct position. As all of mine hadn't come off, I just pulled it back to a suitable place, and cleaned the dust off the fibreglass and back of the vinyl. It meant I had loads of bits of headlining hanging down all over the place, but at least then I could just smooth it back into place. I also used a fan heater when applying the sticky foam to keep moisture to a minimum.
 
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Sounds like good advice. Just peel back to the battens, clean the old foam off the fibreglass as best possible and stick up the new foam panels underneath - I guess 1mm foam wil leave less ridges. Does the vinyl stick instantly, or is there any room to adjust/move the vinyl for creases?
 
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