Global warming - a Bollockquilism

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Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

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Except America it seems. Where other countries send truck loads of condoms to Ghana and many other countries, the American Christian folk don't. They believe the cure in Africa should come from abstaining from sexual relationships.

This came from the Stephen Fry program HIV and me, which I have no reason not to believe.

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That is essentially true. US Govt. money may not be used to support the use of condoms. The religious lunatics who hold a terrifying grip on the US say that it undermines the message that abstinence is best.

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A similar case of charity is the Americans forcing some African nations to grow rice to help out village economies, the Africans are getting quite good at it now, but, this is the good bit, the aid sent by America is, highly refined American rice. This tastes better than African rice, but has little nutritional value. But, tasting better means the African farmers can not even sell their own rice in the markets as the people have a taste for American white rice. The Africans do not have the facility or capability to grow such expensive crops.

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I am not sure about 'forcing ..to grow rice', but it is true that subsidised American food is being used as food aid (and the money paid to American farmers is thus counted as part of the aid budget). This sometimes destroys the value of locally grown food and ensures continued aid dependency. The same applies to many types of aid given without thought to its long term effect.
 
Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

If you are really interested in reading the scientific evidence read the Fraser Institute Summary which gives more than the generalised simplified version in the latest report just issued and answers your question in great depth. There is full evidence there complete with quoted sources and giving a rather more conservative view than put in the latest report. The only thing the latest report adds is that since the issue of the FIS the general consensus of the scientific community appears now to be that global warming is accelerating even faster than previously thought. Both are easily located by Google and to answer a previous post, yes I have read both and am totally convinced. I really don't think there are many educated opinions that now dissagree apart from those that would have condemned Galileo for his views had they been around at the time.
 
Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

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I really don't think there are many educated opinions that now dissagree

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Translation....

"If you don't agree, you are thick"
 
Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

Ah, but taxation is the ultimate expression of the new socialist puritanism.... How do you control the behaviour of your population? Or, Vice versa whats the best way to build your socialist empire, come up with some puritanical excuse to tax the a*** off your public....

My real concerns are that this arrogant preaching, combined with the financial punishement that they are imposing for our "bad behaviour", is fueling the sceptics belief that the whole MMGW thing is nonsense.... after all they lie about everything else...

Now, I tend to lean towards believing, but I dont think that the arguement is in fact needed..... As I have stated before, whats the downside to cutting the behaviour that is the major cause of CO2 emissions, cutting our burning of Fossil Fuels?

All this BS about Micro-Generation, Hybrid cars, Green taxes, etc, are keeping us all from doing some basic things which will make our lives better, make us more profitable, and allow us to become less dependant on a increasingly expensive and rare natural resource whose sourcing is becoming increasingly destructive...plus allow us to divorce ourselves from the Mideast/Islamic problem.....

Tax-Puritanism-lies-MMGW-War in Iraq-islamic unrest-enviromental vandalism Its all the same problem, cut our fossil fuel dependancy, and alot of this is sorted....

I have seen the destruction wrought by the explotation of the tar sands in northern Alberta, and it aint pretty. My father builds R2000 homes in Canada, and these use 90% less energy than conventional homes, (But you cant tell from the outside) so the solution is easy, so we dont need all this crap shoved down our throat about MMGW, we need sensible legislation that improves building standards, we need tax incentives for SME's to cut fuel consumption, we need tax incentives on fuels which have higher calorific values and are cleaner, we need to ensure that people have enough cash in the bank to allow them to reinvest in modern technology, and then ensure that this technology uses less energy than its predeccesors through legislation.

Oh, and heres something, we need to invest in Nuclear Power. This is the only way that we are going to become energy independant... without, say, dam(n)ing the Severn.


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Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

It's ok Lakey, don't be offended, what else do you expect from a "Pratamarran Pilot" /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

Beats me it really does! Where on earth do you twonks on here get the idea that the current incumbents of the governmental chair are socialists! they are about as socialist as Ghengis Khan!..................









Christ knows what that makes you lot! Scarey huh? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

Agree with most of what you've said, especially Nuclear (where are we with Fusion?). But say, just say, we fix the problem by developing (cost-)effective Fusion and Hydrogen power sources in the next five years? What then, do you think the puritanism will go away? These people need to hate, the only way they can live with their own guilt trip is to project greater "sins" on to others.

Next it will be how much time we spend sitting in front of the computer - or something! How global communication has dislocated and destroyed the "family" blah (which it has). It is essentially a reactionary response to change, wanting to wind the clock back to simpler, harder, more "honest" times. In a way they have a point, but they way they try to impose it on us all is very dishonest. The simplest cure to GW if it really is that is very simple indeed - condoms /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

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show me charts showing levels from before the last ice age and then tell me what caused that

[/ QUOTE ]There would be no point in doing that, as it is simply not relevant in a debate about man made factors that influence climate change. That there are and have been many influences on climate and global temperatures is not disputed. The issue in the thread is the extent to which mankind has contributed to the present rapid changes in climate change.

Now, I'm no scientist, so tend to accept, albeit quizzically, what appears to be the majority of scientific opinion in this area. If they are partially wrong in their predictions, or even totally wrong, it would be madness for policy makers to ignore the possibility of them being more or less correct. Politicians, public servants, institutional investors, NGOs etc, have a real responsibility to take steps to mitigate what could well be a a catastrohic disaster for future generations - if the predictions turn out to be mainly true. The IPCC reports are all available at http://www.ipcc.ch.

You other comments about weather cycles and Wittering are well made, but tend to ignore the fact that global temperatures are not behaving as previous cycles have done over the last 1,000 years. This can be seen in the IPCC graph (at http://www.ipcc.ch/graphics/graphics/2001syr/large/05.16.jpg);

IPCCEarthsurfacetemperaturechanges.jpg


Now, not being a scientist, I cannot demonstrate the causality of the relationship, but it certainly does seem to me to be a strong correlation between the temperatures in the above graph, and the human factors (IPCC graph at http://www.ipcc.ch/graphics/graphics/2001syr/large/02.01.jpg);

IPCCIndicatorsofhumaninfluenceonthe.jpg


To be honest, I really do not care how much name calling (and Dave dear boy, you're the guy that goes on about "tree shaggers" and then objects when you get some of that back, though, I hasten to add, not from me) goes on over this issue from the MMGW-is-crap brigade, but I rather hope that policy makers face up to challenges posed by the scientific community.

The costs of not taking action may be unthinkable if it really does all go wrong. Obviously, something is happening with the world's weather, anf the measurable increase in extreme events. You may choose to refute the IPCC findings, but already we are faced with increased volatility of wind strengths, temperatures and rainfall (flood and drought) with consequential effects on food production and population movements. For policy makers to discount, as you do, MMGW as a factor, would be to take risk to an unacceptably high level.

The costs of extreme weather events are increasing - if the IPCC is even quarter correct, then we're all in for a bumpy ride.

IPCCGlobalcostsofextremeweathereven.jpg


However, as the Munich Re “Annual Review: Natural Catastrophes 2005”, pointed out, the IPCC figures above were absolutely shaken by Katrina, not a hurricane of catatrophic size, but one that hit the wrong places;

MunichRe-Globallossesduetonaturaldi.jpg

MunichRe-Insuredlossesduetonaturald.jpg

MunichRe-losseskey2005.jpg
 
Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

Sorry, I am more inclined towards the Soviet model of socialism, versus the Marxist model!
I tend to lean towards the actual delivery, verus the theory...

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You are right, this lot aint socialist, from a marxist perspective, but sure are from a Soviet perspective...

You just need to adjust the model slightly to allow for MegaCorporations and Globalisation. So a large amount of the employment comes from "benign" mega corporations" versus the state, Certainly not from SME's.

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Its the Paternal attitude, the use of taxation to reduce/ eliminate the middle classes, the use of fear to prop up their ability to rule....

I really think its facism, but thats a bit inflamatory...
 
Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

I make the bullets, you fire them.


You just proved my point. You will resort to name-calling and deprecation at the drop of a hat.
 
When logical argument fails... resort to abuse?

If that's an example of your wit I feel sorry for you.
There is an increasing tendancy for low wit and abuse to drive moderate sensible people to abandon this forum and probably I should have joined the moderate majority and not posted on a subject that has been totally hijacked by radical unbelievers in the past.
However I think people have a right to express a view that they don't agree with the majorities accepted opinion and that's what this thread is all about. It's only people like Lakesailor and yourself that attempt to make it personal. Not me.
The facts are that while there are dissagreements about the details and extent of global warming, the original post (as he rightly pointed out) was concerned with the correlation between greenhouse gasses and global warming. The suggestion was that information was being "suppressed" in some worldwide conspiracy. I only seek to point out that all of the information on this correlation is in the public domain and can be read by anybody more interested in learning what is happening rather than protesting about conspiracy theories.
I would in fact like to know how many people who express extreme views on here have actually read the Fraser Institute's report. Not too many I would wager....
 
Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

Eliminate the middle classes? Cor yeah, I'll have some of that, where do I sign up? Does ya think they will get around to using the Guillotine as a more effecient method? Hmmmmmm.........







Where's me knittin'?



Eliminate the middle classes my arse, they are the middle classes, this lot in power are nowt more than slightly pale blue tories! Not a sound socialist policy to be seen anywhere!

Under this Nu-Labour Government the gap between the rich and the poor is wider than it has been for donkeys years.

We have more disenfranchised citizens now than since I can remember.
 
Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

I didn't call you any names at all! You defined your own position!
 
Re: When logical argument fails... resort to abuse?

Well! That's rich! [ QUOTE ]
It's only people like Lakesailor and yourself that attempt to make it personal.

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I haven't said you are thick.
But you have retorted to my comment by inferring that I am.

I am still trying to come to terms with the concept that in order to hold an opinion I have to justify it to you, or any other MMGW believer.

I don't. It's my opinion. The truth will become obvious as circumstances unfold.

Then we can all laugh at those who were "wrong"
 
Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

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Under this Nu-Labour Government the gap between the rich and the poor is wider than it has been for donkeys years.

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Exactly!! No Middle class!

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Okay, Ill start refering to them as Facists! Either way, Facists, Socialists,,, at the core lies the same thing.....

Incompetists!

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Re: Oh for goodness sake - what will your grandchildren say about you?

Thanks Sgeir.

I really do believe it is important that the voice of reason is heard as often as possible in these threads as a lot of people read them, some of them with their hands on at least some minor levers.

It would be much easier to just stay out of it, but that leaves it looking as though the unbelievers represent the majority view among the chattering classes, which they don't.

So, to any other lurkers reading these recurrent threads with a mixture of disbelief and horror I would say - get stuck in.
 
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