Getting away with Murder?

[AlJones]

After watching the sentence handed out to the animals who killed Kriss the 15 year old in Glasgow, I was disgusted with the decision to give another 15 year old 12 years for stabbing, attempting to sexually abuse, and leave the body in a park of a handicapped 11 year old!!!!!

Last year there was a repeat offender who abused and murdered a young girl and he was given FIVE Years and 100 odd days?????????????????????????????????????

What the hell is going on? If your a victim, hardly any systems in place, if you are a CRIMINAL loads of systems in place?????????????

Are we to turn our backs and look the other way?

It was bloody sad to see that farther crying due to this injustice, his handicapped son, taken, beaten, stabbed, interfered with and dumped!

I take my hat off to this boys parents, I would probably be doing time for the torture of this Criminal.

Here's a question for you, why is it day after day we hear of these terrible crimes being committed by under 18's with the add on, " ........the offender can not be named for legal reasons."
And this guy has his name and face everywhere? Is it because he has been found guilty?
If so, I don't remember the Jamie Bulger murderers in Liverpool, being named. I may be mistaken, but I remember seeing a documentary on these boys ten years after they abducted Jamie lead him to the railway line and then smashed his head with bricks and paving slabs.

I am ex-armed forces, been in two theatre's of conflict and been a Police Officer so seen the real nasty side of some people's ethics and regard for life, but it never fails to amaze me how lightly these are punished.

Just seen a women get 9 month's for not controlling a dog!

I don't understand any more, Now I know why I love being at sea, and being away from horrible people!!!!!(Not including you lot in that sentence /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif)

Shocked

Al

 

[theforeman]

please explain why being convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment can be described as " getting away with murder " ?

 

[Aja]

There is a difference.

The three convicted of murder were found guilty and given life. In addition they were also convicted of the extra charge of 'racially aggravated' which the judge was allowed to add their their life sentence. This is the first time that this extra sentence has been handed down in Scotland.

Donald

 

[bigwow]

Jamie Bulgers murders were Thompson and Venables

 

[jhr]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't remember the Jamie Bulger murderers in Liverpool, being named

[/ QUOTE ] Their names (John Venables and Robert Thompson) and pictures were all over the press at the time of their trial. They were given new identities when they were released, and no doubt the tabloids would love to know them so that they can start up the whole circus again.

I don't understand why young children kill other kids, though I'd recommend Gitta Sereny's excellent book about Mary Bell for some insight, but in these particular circumstances I think it's best for everyone to try and give them another chance at building a normal life - which they'll never be able to do if everyone knows who they are.

But Kriss Donald's killers should stay out of circulation for a very long time......

 

[Aja]

[quote
But Kriss Donald's killers should stay out of circulation for a very long time......

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. The ringleader was released early from prison for an earlier conviction!

Donald

 

[AlJones]

Life doesn't mean life!

On average a convicted criminal can be eligible for parole and release AFTER HALF the sentence has been served, (My understanding, but am open to be corrected)

Therefor it would precipitate that the 22 yrs that one of those Asian criminals where given yesterday, could serve just 11 yrs for what he did to a 15 yr old school boy.

That young school boy is going to be gone for a lot longer than 11 years, his parents and family are going to be without him for more than 11 yrs, his friends are going to be without him for more than 11 years. I could go on but I think you understand my drift.

Punishment to fit the crime, thats what I am asking the panel to comment on.

Whilst a serving Police Officer, I had dealing's with a particular violent assault on a teenage boy by a mid thirty year old man. Bad isn't it!

Prior to hearing the full story, this defendant was treated abysmally by everyone he came into contact with. He was always quiet and polite the whole time I was with him, shocked at what he had done. Rightfully so, eh?
It turned out that this teenager had brokken into the home of his elderly mother, robbed her, stripped her, tied her up and defecated on her, The defendant walked in on this scene and 'completly lost it'.
Now, Society went the way of this guy being a bully, an over the top violent criminal, then his pre-meditated actions were questioned. It turned out the guy was on his way home from work, popped in to check on his mother as he always did, and found this teenager trying to pull up his trousers and to get the hell out of there, but he tripped and was caught by this man,
Now the defense stated that "PASSION PREVENTED CONSENT TO BE FULL AND FREE".
The guy got five years, the mother never recovered and died whilst her son was inside, and the teenager got a community supervision order and a suspended sentence.

So I ask, did this teenager get away with murder? Did the son deserve a custodial sentence?

Passion being the crime, or pre-meditated calculated murder?

Al

 

[AlJones]

For bigwow and jhr:

Thanks for that info,

I agree, the rehabilitation of offenders should be worked on, and if they have done the time for the crime and paid their dues after being tried and judged by their piers, a new start is what they should have, but my question is DOES THE SENTENCE FIT THE CRIME?

Al

 

[l'escargot]

[ QUOTE ]
....On average a convicted criminal can be eligible for parole and release AFTER HALF the sentence has been served, (My understanding, but am open to be corrected)

Therefor it would precipitate that the 22 yrs that one of those Asian criminals where given yesterday, could serve just 11 yrs for what he did to a 15 yr old school boy....

[/ QUOTE ]

Since the 2003 Criminal Justice Act (effective from 5 April 2005) there is no parole for determinate sentences - they are all automatically released on licence after serving half their sentence no matter what the length of sentence is.

In the case of indeterminate (life) sentences, the judge can give a minimum term to be served before being considered for parole. This is not halved so in this case the individual will serve 22 years before being considered for parole and there is no automatic release. Nor is there any guarantee that parole will be granted.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Al,

That frightens me.... I have a pretty good idea of how i'd react if i'd been that 30 something year old man...... I'd have half killed the little [--word removed--].

As I grow older, I find myself more inclined to suggest that these kind of criminals have their balls cut off with a rusty blunt knife... I know its wrong, but who else is there to serve out justice?.... we seem to be endowed with a system largely focussed upon re-education rather than punishment.... I sometimes wonder how much burglary would be reduced if it was an instant 20 year sentence if found guilty?

Sadly, I think I would now vote for capital punishment...

 

[AlJones]

Thanks for that Mark.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain those workings.

Like I have said before, I actually left the job in 1992! I am always up for being put right on facts.

Again, I thank you.

Al

 

[AlJones]

Thanks for that Mark.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain those workings.

Like I have said before, I actually left the job in 1992! I am always up for being put right on facts.

Again, I thank you.

Al

 

[spannerman]

Quote " but in these particular circumstances I think it's best for everyone to try and give them another chance at building a normal life - which they'll never be able to do if everyone knows who they are".

Why should they get to have a normal life, their victims never got that opportunity, and the victims families will never know the meaning of a normal life after their loss.

Hang'em high IMHO, if there was a bit more corporal and capital punishment, the incidence of these kind of attacks would be reduced and I don't think you would get many repeat offenders if you got the modern day version of the birch.
All this PC b**ll**x drives me nuts, I'd love to know if they would be so forgiving if their child/sister/mother was attacked or murdered.

 

[AlJones]

I concur.

The unheard majority, law abiding citizens ignored.

We deserve to live in a lower crime environment. It is a right, not a privilege.

Al

 

[Talbot]

I would be quite happy for them to be released after a couple of years






provided they had a full lobotomy and were castrated with a blunt knife ( not necessarily in that order) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Barr Avel]

Nonsense. There is no eveidence what so ever that corporal punishment acts as a deterrant.
The only justification for it is some kind of vengeance for families. Thankfully society has evolved since the eye for an eye mentality.
Maybe I would want the death of the murderer of my children, but thankfully it is the state that hands out justice, not the victims. No sentence is intended to make families feel better or avenged, its purpose is to punish, act as a deterrant for others, and rehabilitate the criminal.

And if you crave a different kind of justice maybe you should go to Afghanistan or another country which enforces the Sharia law.

 

[laverda]

As (I imagine) most murders are done in the heat of the moment, the killer is not thinking about the consequences of their actions so a death penalty is not a deterrent. However, I see no reason why it cannot be used as a punsihment.

Why is the killer's right to life greater than his (or her) victims?

I don't see the why you can take away someone else's rights and not forfiet your own.

 

[Pinnacle]

I believe I am correct in saying that to be convicted of murder, there has to be pre-meditation, other wise its manslaughter.

So, it cannot be done "in the heat of the moment". All IMHO.

 

[Pinnacle]

Should this be in the Forum ( edit opps, the Lounge)?

 

[Barr Avel]

[ QUOTE ]
However, I see no reason why it cannot be used as a punsihment.


[/ QUOTE ]

What about miscarriages of Justice? I take also that you do not believe a criminal can be rehabilitated?
Maybe I am wrong, maybe people haven't changed and do really think that the amputation of limbs, stoning and hanging are the way to hand out justice and punishments. How sad, and thank god that politicans and not the masses rule the country.