German Sheeting - Pros & Cons

[exapp]

Hello,

Sorry if this has been asked before but what are the pros and cons of german sheeting as it appears to be offered more and more on new yachts.

Also would anyone know a link to a schematic of the setup for german sheeting.

Thanks

Exapp

 

[Tranona]

Pros are simplicity, bringing sheet(s) back to helm.
Cons are lots of string, potential chafe, two big winches required.

Don't know of any schematics, but just go and look at a 2007 on Bavaria for ideas (but avoid the potential chafe points).

 

[flaming]

Advantages -

Greater control without having to have a fine tune.
Reduces risk of "jammed cleat" syndrome preventing easing when fully pressed.
Greater power.
Less rope required
All of which can be had without the disadvantage of having to have the mainsheet out of reach of the helm

Disadvantages -

Requires two winches
overcomplicated for smaller boats
Can be slower to sheet in

 

[cagey]

What is German sheeting

 

[bobgoode]

Single block on traveller with lines led along boom and once at mast out to a turningh block on each side deck hence back to winches by the helm.

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

Here is a nice diagram of the simplest version. For larger mainsails more purchase can be used at the boom.
Diagram here:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn14/hectou/mainsheet_9.jpg

 

[Tranona]

That is one way, but not the common way, which has two sheets going forward from the traveller along the boom, through blocks to turning blocks, either on the deck or coachroof and them back (possibly through other blocks) to winches on the coamings either side of the helm.

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

That's exactly what the diagram shows. As a schematic, the traveller is shown oversized. Check it out on the Harken website.

 

[Tranona]

Well, your photo only shows sheets going from the winches, through twin blocks on the traveller car, over a block on the boom and back to the other winch.

The Bavaria system has a single block on the traveller, a double on the boom, two sheets (actually the ends of a single sheet) leading forward to a double turning block at the gooseneck taking a sheet either side to a turning block by the shroud plates and then aft along the side decks. Another turning block provides a lead to the winch.

Can't see anything like that in the Harken catalogue. Although I am sure there are more elegant ways of doing it - seem to remember the Sunbeam 34 arrangement was neater as it all ran across the coachroof in covered conduits.

 

[flaming]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is a nice diagram of the simplest version. For larger mainsails more purchase can be used at the boom.
Diagram here:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn14/hectou/mainsheet_9.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

They actually don't add purchace. They just use bigger winches. Even the Volvo boats only have a 2:1.

 

[lw395]

No that's not German or 'GAC' for German Admiral's Cup sheeting. With what you have shown, the mainsheet pulleys on the traveller have to rotate if the traveler is moved, which is more friction than the GAC system, the key feature of which is not leading the mainsheet from the traveller to the hand/winch, but effectively adjusting it from the boom. It is lead along the boom, down near the gooseneck and back along the deck, with only the boom-traveller section varying in length as the sheet is adjusted.
It means you have a winched mainsheet with independent, low friction adjustmnet of the traveller.
There are mutants and in-between systems where the sheet is only lead part way along the boom.
Alas google does not find any decent diagrams for me!

 

[William_H]

I would think that it is in a gybe that the system has the advantage. I occasionally sail on a Farr 40 with simple 6 purchase main sheet plus trimming tackle on the tail. The skipper requests that the main be pulled in as the boom comes across then gently allowed out to cushion the impact of the boom crashing across.
frankly I don't have the speed or strength to get the main sheet in then ease it out again quickly enough. It has a huge mainsail.

The mainsheet system using the small purchase and winches would mean a ar easier taking in of the mainsheet and a simple way to use the friction of the winch drum to ease the crash.
Disadvantages would seem to be a lot of pulleys which has a large mainsheet load on them hence need to be strongly attached and robust in design.
I note that every boat I looked at in last years Sydney to Hobart race had this system (german sheeting) All big boats of ciourse 40ft + 0
olewill

 

[rudolph_hart]

My 35 footer has a variant of this, but it has only a single 'tail', which runs through a clutch mounted on the coaming alongside the wheel, then though a tube duct inside the coaming & coachroof to dectidies near the base of the mast, up through a goosneck block, through the boom to another block near the boom end, down to a 4:1 purchase system on a Harken traveller (with separate 3:1 purchases for up/down track adjustment) and on the boom end.

It makes mainsail control a doddle, as the 4:1 purchase lightens the load in the clutch lever, so you can 'surge' the sheet though the clutch to dump in the gusts, and soften a gybe. It does mean that you have a fair bit of line to bring in again, though!

Winch is Harken 42 electric, and it also handles main halyard, jib furling line and jibsheet (the clutch is a quad). There's another winch on the opposite coaming, which handles Reefs 1 & 2 (single line) and port jibsheet.

Hope this helps

 

[Tranona]

Apart from going right back to the helm, what you describe is no different from most other mainsheets. The difference with the two tail system is that tension on the main is achieved by pulling one tail (on the windward side) against the other, which is fixed.