Genoa furling problem and tactics

[Supertramp]

I furl a 150% on a 36ft boat singlehanded. I keep the halyard relatively slack and the furling line runs without sharp turns and freshwater clean the bearings every so often. The first turns are usually the hardest and I will roll in a turn if the wind picks up just to make it easier when furling is needed. Furling a blanketed sail downwind is easy (if you have the room and a good autopilot). But I wouldn't do that unless already off the wind as it adds new problems.

I usually heave to across or into the wind to furl and keep the sail flapping a bit but not flogging,. My boat sits happily across the wind. That way if there is a problem there is time to sort it.

It's not a precise science - sometimes it needs refurling in quieter waters in big winds (20-25knts).

 

[johnalison]

Perhaps you should not be so prickly? I specifically said I had been running downwind basically on genoa only when I had issues. Thus I had no way to stop boat without furling genoa or engine driving it into wind and have it flog dangerously anyway, (or of course crash into harbour or boats) so your solution did not always work.

I am pleased you have never had an accidental gybe - many of us are not so fortunate or skilled

Again, I didn’t say I’d never mis-gybed, only that I had not done so during the procedure. I read your comment as generalised advice, as in ‘won’t work’ vs ‘didn’t work’. Limited sea-room, as in a river, can reduce one’s options of course, but even so, running will reduce the wind pressure and may help furling. This is one reason why I avoid sailing under jib alone even though it can be tempting to do so on a downwind leg. Even though I service my furling gear and operate it with the halyard slack, it doesn’t take much wind to make furling it very hard work if there is any wind pressure on it.

 

[Refueler]

I have a 140% Genoa on my Mac and my other half and I have real difficulties furling it safely in anything over about 12 knots . Whilst out with a stronger crew I tried a few different methods ie swapping to a winch etc but the most successful I found was to gybe downwind with main still up and blanket the Genny then furl it . Then back upwind to bring down the main . Anybody any thoughts on the method or better suggestions ?

First thing I would be doing is checking forestay tension ... then the free running of the extrusion on the stay.

As wind force on the sail increases - if the stay is not tensioned right - the extrusion creates a curve and binds on the stay - making it hard to furl.

This can eventually lead to stay layup deforming. As it deforms - the binding increases ... leads to more deformation ... more binding ...

If the stay is correctly tensioned - then reducing that wind force on the sail / extrusion is called for .. either blanket with main - or turn head into wind.

Loosening the luff is fine if the system allows that and no halyard wrap occurs ... Profurl etc. But if its Plastimo - then last thing you want is loosened halyard as it will wrap and you really are 'goosed' then.

 

[Bodach na mara]

There have been two suggestions about slacking the halyard. In my experience doing that will result in halyard wrap which makes it impossible to furl.

 

[Refueler]

There have been two suggestions about slacking the halyard. In my experience doing that will result in halyard wrap which makes it impossible to furl.

It depends on the system ... The Profurl 2000 I had ... the furling line was in fact the genny hoist line ... in at base ... up one groove to top, over a bearing and then down other groove to genny .... you then hoisted the genny using the furling line ... once set - make fast and then wind the rest of line onto drum .... once on drum - then furl genny.
But of course any furler that uses original halyard such as Plastimo will wrap if halyard slacked ...

 

[Daydream believer]

It depends on the system ... The Profurl 2000 I had ... the furling line was in fact the genny hoist line ... in at base ... up one groove to top, over a bearing and then down other groove to genny .... you then hoisted the genny using the furling line ... once set - make fast and then wind the rest of line onto drum .... once on drum - then furl genny.
But of course any furler that uses original halyard such as Plastimo will wrap if halyard slacked ...

So how did you adjust halyard tension when under sail?

 

[johnalison]

There have been two suggestions about slacking the halyard. In my experience doing that will result in halyard wrap which makes it impossible to furl.

It obviously differs between systems and boats. It doesn’t appear to be a risk with my Furlex even if the halyard is loosened sufficiently for a small bow of sail to appear at the tack.

 

[Daverw]

We found the first block and last block are critical to keeping friction down, both are ball bearing blocks and rest are normal stantion lead blocks

 

[Sumara of Weymouth]

Wow, I'm glad my sails are hanked on!

 

[flaming]

If you’ve ever let the furling line go when the sail is full of wind in a decent breeze and seen it fly out whilst the Genoa unfurls like a roller blind in a cartoon, then you’ll realise that there is actually quite a lot of load in that line, and pulling it in is no trivial task.
The oft repeated advice never to winch is sound, ish, but if you know what you’re doing, and understand how much force is required to furl, and how much is indicative of a bigger problem, the. It can often be the only way to make it work on bigger boats in stronger winds.

 

[Refueler]

So how did you adjust halyard tension when under sail?

The Profurl 2000 is not designed for adjustment as the furling line as already described is the hoist line as well as the furling line.

I have to say that in over 55yrs of boats ... I have only adjusted genny halyard on hanked sail .... and even that rarely ... even when I raced ...

 

[deeb]

I always slack the halyard - by which I mean just ease it slightly so the headsail luff is no longer under tension - which isnt a bad idea anyway as it helps preserve the shape of the sail. I don't pull the tension back on until the sail has been unfurled the next time, so when the boat isn't being moored the headsail luff isn't tight.

But when I say slack the halyard I don't mean paying out so much that there is a chance of a wrap and there is slack billowing about, I just mean let the tension off a bit.

It does help. And if at all possible turn downwind.

 

[Daydream believer]

Surely leaving the halyard under tension is one of the easiest ways to ruin a sail.
As for adjusting halyard under way. Would one not expect to adjust the position of the draught of a sail as the wind pressure increases? Bit like adjusting the controls on a mainsail.

 

[Bathdave]

I just head up a bit, let some slack on the Genoa sheet, and pull in by hand …it flogs a bit for a few seconds but comes in pretty quickly ..I try and keep some balance by not letting the sheet go completely

I thought this was pretty standard? Seems to work even on a big overlapping genoa

 

[johnalison]

I just head up a bit, let some slack on the Genoa sheet, and pull in by hand …it flogs a bit for a few seconds but comes in pretty quickly ..I try and keep some balance by not letting the sheet go completely

I thought this was pretty standard? Seems to work even on a big overlapping genoa

The fact that something is common practice doesn’t necessarily make it ‘standard’. What you are describing simply doesn’t work on my boat and would quickly lead to my having to replace an expensive laminate jib. For all of us, it’s our own boat, and we have to work out the best way for us. The reason I often recommend turning downwind is that it is somewhat counterintuitive and doesn’t occur to many sailors who might benefit from using it, and similarly with easing the tension on the halyard.

 

[thinwater]

Tried and checked most friction / load issues . Try to avoid being out in a 6 in our little boat but we can all get caught out . It's surprising how it can gust just when you don't want it to . Anyone ever used the downwind tactic as a norm ?

Yes, turning down wind is the standard method as the wind builds. In light air, upwind will give a tighter furl and is easy, but once it builds, turn downwind (to some extent--the angle varies). Also best for roller-reefing. Always keep some back tension on the sheet, enough to prevent flogging and create a nice furl.

If you have everything ready before you turn away, you will have it furled in moments and will lose very little distance. Turn, haul, then head to wind.

 

[Refueler]

Surely leaving the halyard under tension is one of the easiest ways to ruin a sail.
As for adjusting halyard under way. Would one not expect to adjust the position of the draught of a sail as the wind pressure increases? Bit like adjusting the controls on a mainsail.

You seem so pre-occupied with this .....

As to ruin a sail ... the Genny just replaced on Superanne is over 30yrs old .... rarely off the furler ... only time tension changed is those few times taken down or hoisted.

Risking firing squad .... I personally believe that this easing of luff on a furler has far less effect than people imagine, especially when compared to a hanked sail. Buts that's my opinion. It seems that Profurl with the 2000 system I had on a previous boat may have had same opinion

 

[Daydream believer]

Risking firing squad .... I personally believe that this easing of luff on a furler has far less effect than people imagine, especially when compared to a hanked sail. Buts that's my opinion. It seems that Profurl with the 2000 system I had on a previous boat may have had same opinion

If you were to go on the MyHanse forum, you would see that, over the years, there have been numerous comments from owners having problems furling their sails. Number one solution is-- ease the halyard.

 

[flaming]

Risking firing squad .... I personally believe that this easing of luff on a furler has far less effect than people imagine, especially when compared to a hanked sail. Buts that's my opinion. It seems that Profurl with the 2000 system I had on a previous boat may have had same opinion

I personally believe you to be incorrect, but not worthy of a firing squad.

 

[Poignard]

I can't realistically slacken the halyard on my very old Rotostay before furling. It is the type where the wire halyard leads up to a swivel in the forestay and back down to the drum, where it is tensioned by a lanyard.

The best I can do is to slacken the backstay tensioner.

Despite this apparent drawback it furls easily in all conditions.