Generator quandary.

Hi, I have a Whisper Power Piccolo 5 installed. In the past I've had two Fischer Pandas, 4800i and 5000i. Both were endless trouble. There's no way I'd ever have or recomend a Fischer Panda gen set.
The piccol 5 will run a 120 amp victon battery charger, 1kW water heater and a low power vacuum kettle, but not much more that that.
It'll run a Henry Vacuum cleaner, and the battery charger.
I don't have water maker.
So far it seems reliable.
It's small and light.
We have a water seperator exaust system, you can hardly hear from outside the boat.
Inside you can hear it, but you can have a normal conversation.
It does vary the rpm signicantly, eg when the micro wave oven stop the revs go down, noticably.
Things I don't like:
200hr service interval.
No oil filter.
Oil screen at the pick-up from the sump, which is hard to access.
Sea water cooled oil, via a heat exchanger.
I don't understand why an oil filter isn't fitted, using a filter and synthetic oil, would significantly increase the service interval.
As far as I can see it is a recent Whisper Power designed diesel, made in europe, so that could have been part of the design brief.
 
geem said:
The OPs problem is possibly not have space for sufficient solar. That is my case on a 44ft boat.
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It's more about the compromises you want to make. You could cover the deck and bimini with panels and erect a structure overhanging the stern, over the davits or with an arch. A typical UK cruiser of say 12m x 4m may have 28m sq of deck space plus say 3m sq on a rear arch. Say you cover only a quarter of that plus the arch, that would be 10 m sq, which should produce 2.0 kW power. Way more than almost anyone needs, perhaps 3 times more. I think there should be room without going silly. I know a couple of people who have achieved 100% solar power on boats like this.

Another reference is the Atlantic Talisker rowers. They row across in their tiny boats, with even smaller deck areas relatively and all (admittedly small) electric needs are met by solar.
 
jwfrary said:
The main bit to go wrong is the inverter anyway which is common to both PMG fixed speed or variable speed units
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not sure that's necessarily correct. my (and by the looks of it geem's) generators only have a couple of capacitors to do the job, no other electronics whatsoever.
Never needed to "excite" it even after a 4yr period that didn't fire up due to an extensive rebuilt.
 
vas said:
not sure that's necessarily correct. my (and by the looks of it geem's) generators only have a couple of capacitors to do the job, no other electronics whatsoever.
Never needed to "excite" it even after a 4yr period that didn't fire up due to an extensive rebuilt.
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I Dont think the OP says but he's looking at the little whispers, we know it's not Fisher panda... I think the pagaeros are another one the same as yours.

The whispers are exactly the same hardware on the fixed and variable, in fact the sell the fixed one as variable so you can tune the 'resonance out' I don't know what the voltage is they are using the dealer I was talking to didn't know but I do know bcuae I had a good poke around the sets they had on displayi t's just the speed controlled and a actuator with a slightly longer throw on it that's the difference. Mecce alt the alternator manufacturer have quite a good explanation of how they have gone about their PMG generators.
 
Zing said:
It's more about the compromises you want to make. You could cover the deck and bimini with panels and erect a structure overhanging the stern, over the davits or with an arch. A typical UK cruiser of say 12m x 4m may have 28m sq of deck space plus say 3m sq on a rear arch. Say you cover only a quarter of that plus the arch, that would be 10 m sq, which should produce 2.0 kW power. Way more than almost anyone needs, perhaps 3 times more. I think there should be room without going silly. I know a couple of people who have achieved 100% solar power on boats like this.

Another reference is the Atlantic Talisker rowers. They row across in their tiny boats, with even smaller deck areas relatively and all (admittedly small) electric needs are met by solar.
Click to expand...
That's not very realistic. I assume you mean Flexible panels on a deck? They aren't non-slip and they last about 5mins in my experience.
We don't have space for a solar arch aka monkey bars. I also really dislike the look of them. We make do with 4 panels on the guardrails.
If you want to install lots of solar buy a catamaran. We know lots of cruisers with circa 2 KW of solar on cats. It's not practical on a monohull or visually pleasing.
With regard to the rowers, they don't have a fridge. They have a small watermaker and an autopilot moving a tiny rudder. Their loads are miniscule. In addition they can hammer their battery. It only has to do one trip of less than 90 days. Most of us would like to get several years out of our batteries
 
geem said:
That's not very realistic. I assume you mean Flexible panels on a deck? They aren't non-slip and they last about 5mins in my experience.
We don't have space for a solar arch aka monkey bars. I also really dislike the look of them. We make do with 4 panels on the guardrails.
If you want to install lots of solar buy a catamaran. We know lots of cruisers with circa 2 KW of solar on cats. It's not practical on a monohull or visually pleasing.
With regard to the rowers, they don't have a fridge. They have a small watermaker and an autopilot moving a tiny rudder. Their loads are miniscule. In addition they can hammer their battery. It only has to do one trip of less than 90 days. Most of us would like to get several years out of our batteries
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Like I said. It’s all about compromises and therefore where you draw the line. You choose aesthetics over solar. I don’t blame you. If I had an Italian sleek racing machine I would not countenance the idea of any solar, or even a bimini. I did allow for not using most of the potential areas on a boat.

You need to support flexible panels so they cannot flex. A very rigid surface. Ideally not to walk on them, like a catamaran roof. I have some 20 year old ones working perfectly. Another one that can flex (thin film) is nearly 30 years old.
 
Have you done a power budget? We (family of 4) manage just fine in the tropics with 470W PV, a towed generator and a good wind turbine. We make all our water with a schenker DC clark-pump watermaker. If you don't like the aesthetics of PV panels, I know a Pogo where they installed a bunch of sockets around the deck and then plugged in temporary PV panels where and when they wanted them.
 
On solar, I think it was sailing channel Uma who mooted the idea of ‘ slide out’ solar panels which sort of stacked on top of more panels (!) on monkey bar/fixed Bimini frame..4 for 2

Added complexity , vulnerability etc of course but an option other than hanging panels off the side dodgers and lifelines like a family of towels?

The point about being made aware of a changing noise pitch on a generator relative to its load is one that hasn’t occurred to me and would be an irritant (probably .. )
 
Solar:
- we didn't want an arch and didn't want to hang outboard on the pushpit
- semi flex walk on deck panels are expensive and low yield so not this either
- bought 6x55w Victron frame panels which, when anchored, we lay out on deck, tie down if very windy, stored in lazarette when not in use, we call them "flying panels"
- built a six way wiring loom which plugs in to a feed to MPPT and 6no. panels
- takes ten minutes to lay out/pack up the panels, no big deal, acceptable compromise for us
- made a panel frame to fit in dinghy (on davits) which securely accommodates 3 panels for solar depolyment when sailing if desired

boats are an accumulation of compromises, as is life.
 
I do not understand why you'd go for a generator over solar, hydro and wind when with that combo you can make all the water and run all the systems you'll need.

If you are still insisting, go for the fixed speed generator and get a large LFP battery, that way you can charge the battery quickly at max power and then turn the thing off.
 
If you want to make enemies in quiet anchorages then get a generator! Me I hate them with a passion and the people who run them particularly if they set them running then go off and leave the boat. I don't think generators have any place open a sailing boat, blue water cruisers liveaboards whatever. The whole point is to live off grid not take the grid with you. Limit your power consumption and you can manage quite well with just say solar power. I know it's possible because I did it.
 
dansaskip said:
If you want to make enemies in quiet anchorages then get a generator! Me I hate them with a passion and the people who run them particularly if they set them running then go off and leave the boat. I don't think generators have any place open a sailing boat, blue water cruisers liveaboards whatever. The whole point is to live off grid not take the grid with you. Limit your power consumption and you can manage quite well with just say solar power. I know it's possible because I did it.
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I understand your point of view, but I'd challenge you to hear the noise from some of the generators I've used in the past at more than a few metres away. I'm also not sure about your assertion that 'The whole point is to live off grid' thing you mention. Life is full of choices and a worthwhile choice is not annoying others. I'm not sure imposing my values about 'off grid' on others is a choice I want to make.
Given enough solar power, I suspect that we won't use the generator very much, but I intend to make the installation as near silent as possible. Extra silencer and water separator and discharge underwater etc.
 
Robih said:
Solar:
- we didn't want an arch and didn't want to hang outboard on the pushpit
- semi flex walk on deck panels are expensive and low yield so not this either
- bought 6x55w Victron frame panels which, when anchored, we lay out on deck, tie down if very windy, stored in lazarette when not in use, we call them "flying panels"
- built a six way wiring loom which plugs in to a feed to MPPT and 6no. panels
- takes ten minutes to lay out/pack up the panels, no big deal, acceptable compromise for us
- made a panel frame to fit in dinghy (on davits) which securely accommodates 3 panels for solar depolyment when sailing if desired

boats are an accumulation of compromises, as is life.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a plan. We have dinghy on davits but I'm in two minds as to whether to deflate it and stow it when doing Ocean passages...
 
roaringgirl said:
I do not understand why you'd go for a generator over solar, hydro and wind when with that combo you can make all the water and run all the systems you'll need.

If you are still insisting, go for the fixed speed generator and get a large LFP battery, that way you can charge the battery quickly at max power and then turn the thing off.
Click to expand...
Alternatively the mixed power generation solution of solar and generator gives you far more flexibility. If you don't use solar to make water the solar can run the boat even on cloudy days. You don't need LFP. No big discharge means no big load. We never run the generator to charge batteries. Our Trojan T105 batteries get an easy life. The generator can make water super quickly with high output watermaker, make hot water at the same time and run a proper vacuum cleaner. Ours does all this in 15/20 mins per day.
When you aren't sailing in the Tropics how do you do this? Cold shower? No shower? Boil the kettle? We all make different choices. There is no right or wrong way if doing this. Certain choices suit certain people
 
geem said:
Alternatively the mixed power generation solution of solar and generator gives you far more flexibility. If you don't use solar to make water the solar can run the boat even on cloudy days. You don't need LFP. No big discharge means no big load. We never run the generator to charge batteries. Our Trojan T105 batteries get an easy life. The generator can make water super quickly with high output watermaker, make hot water at the same time and run a proper vacuum cleaner. Ours does all this in 15/20 mins per day.
When you aren't sailing in the Tropics how do you do this? Cold shower? No shower? Boil the kettle? We all make different choices. There is no right or wrong way if doing this. Certain choices suit certain people
Click to expand...

If you don't have LFP, then you need to make sure you get to float regularly and the charge profiles mean you can't use all the power available to charge the batteries. The solar & wind run everything on our boat every day *and* make all the water we need. We started out in Scotland, with much less solar and no windgen or hydro. Granted, we cold-shower unless the engine has been running recently.
 
john_morris_uk said:
I’m now trying to decide whether to have a completely independent generator battery or use the engine start battery.
Click to expand...

Assuming your engine battery is under the navigator’s seat or the pilot berth, using that obviously involves running hefty (/expensive) cables through the engine bay to the cockpit locker. That being said, a dedicated battery takes up space and unless you’re using the generator regularly you need another method of charging it, so probably more wires unless you use dedicated solar. Rarely using my generator it’s probably cost me more in batteries than diesel.
 
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