Generator and battery advice needed by newbies breaking away from Marina "technicians " fleecing our federal reserves !!

[Lisa&Paul]

Hi newbies here again with our Beneteau Antares 30 fly 2010 Yanmar diesel ...500 hours

After 3 weeks on the hard for antifouling (foc and part of the annual mooring fees ) Thats where the Free of Charge ended and big bucks came into play !!!!

Now we know boating aint cheap and we came in with our eyes and wallets open but are wising up and with new shipmates met are getting the spending budget slowly back into reality !!!

QUESTIONS ....

1/ Had the generator serviced ( not been used in 10 years by previous owners ) and a new battery installed and now the marina tech saying we need a new universal card to insert somewhere in the genny for it to work and register the genny in Turkey !!! At a cost of 402 euro's !!!! Is this normal for a genny needing a 'card' ? Cant post the make of genny as we are off the boat at the mo

2/ Before our maiden voyage after engine service , antifouling , seacocks checked and the main seawater one replaced at 350 euro's the engine failed to start 2 nd time after being put back in the water ( bearing in mind boat been on shore power for 7 months and engine not been run ) Technician says give him an hour and he charge battery up , upon our return he says one battery good and one not good , both need replacing @ 300 euro's each !!

So we have bought a new quality battery tester and intend to test batteries as fave word round here is kaput , need new one !!! Our boat has 2 main batteries under the steps by the helm which are longer than your normal car battery and have sourced info that they are 12v and 140 amp , one for the house and one for starting the engines ..........

So Elessar or Baldydash previously , you have helped us before so if you can answer my queries
a/ is this the right battery set up for our boat ie only one for electrics and one for starting , side by side but independant and is that ampage correct and sufficient ?

b/ When we go back to marina i will isolate batteries from any power and test them , what reading should i get if batteries are in good condition / or not ? As stated marina tech wants 600 euro's to replace both which is crazy !!!

I am not an easy touch having run my own biz for 40 years but are aware we are in North Cyprus , so pound signs and language are an issue in a lovely marina , that is currently quiet and needing to get the tills rolling .....at our expense lol

Any help appreciated Paul and Lisa

 

[Bigplumbs]

That is a crazy Price for a battery. £150 e4ach is more like it. You can easily replace things like this yourself

 

[mcanderson]

In order

1. You will need to provide a bit more on your generator for people to help. However they are generally very simple diesel engines that drive the generator and so only have simple systems. The card could be to control the generator function, but I am guessing. As far as having it registered in a country that sounds like complete nonsense.

2. If one battery has failed and they are both of the same age, then yes replace both. 300 Euro for a battery supplied by a marine technician is steep. If you can source a pair of 140Ah batteries than replace them yourself. I swapped all mine 4 x 180ah. My 180ah batteries are used on a Bavaria 37 Sport and start my Volvo Penta D6-330s with ease. They are heavy buggers so be prepared if you replace them. I use Varta batteries.
If you swap over the current batteries does the engine start?

 

[simonfraser]

Did you want a basic or top of the range battery
how easy are they to install depends on access
dont expect the tech to run around and fit at no charge
do it yourself then you know how to fix it

what service did the genny need, could have done that yourself too ?

 

[oldgit]

Universal "card" ....Genny actually needs a new PCB of some description ???

 

[Portland Billy]

Source and replace the batteries yourself, but make sure you get the terminals the right way around!
It is normal to have one battery dedicated to engine start and the other for domestics, usually with a cross over switch on case one goes duff, but a set of jump leads is handy in this event.

 

[Portofino]

Battery science is complex , it’s not the volts it the cold crank ing amps .CCA .
Your battery tester if a proper one puts a high draw on them for a short period of time and picks up there ability to hold charge .
As they age the loose the ability to hold it .
So if on shore power like you say then in a yard ( possibly unhooked ) if they have gone they loose the CCA to fire up the engines .
Then engines need them doubly in the sense , it’s not just to turn them over crank them but secondary to power up the electrotwackery in the black boxes , you know ECU etc to run them .A drop in power to one means no start .
eg say the ECU might prevent the fuel valve solenoid if the rpm crank ing drops below X rpm .Might sound ok but it’s turning ( guess ) 398 rpm and the cut off is 400 = no start .
The starter mother consumes most of the starter bank but as said possibly the main ECU s need to see 11.7 v upwards and now only see 11.6 .This is despite the fact your volt test / guage shows a apparently healthy 13 v or 12.7 or what ever .
As said complex and all that evaporates within a few seconds of turning the key if the batts are not up to it .

So your tech is right a hour or so on the charger or starting them on the charger works in a fashion .
But consider @ anchor ?
That’s why your geny ( when or if it ever gets fixed ? ) is your friend .
As said I wish there was some easy binary way of determining the engine batts heath .There is not , signs and symptoms creep up slowly.

As far as price , it’s the local price ( do they attract a tax more than the EU ? ) + Labour + possibly disposal of the old in a recycling way .I am unfamiliar with Turkey on these three ?

Cross over or “parallel “
Some boats , well the two I have owned have like yours separate domestic and engine banks .
This is so at anchor your fridges and other consumers ( say a nice 4/5 day stay in an idyllic bay ) do not drain down the power to get you into a situation re engine starts like i explained in my first para above .

How ever if it’s the other way round , like now say you anchor up , after a marina start of 5 mins with out shore power then only 4 hrs in a bay , it’s time to rtn .The engine batts can’ t fire up the engines for the reasons I have explained- then with the parallel switch you can rob the domestic ( good bank ) bank temporarily to top up the week engine bank and fire up and you are away .

Now hopefully the penny has dropped why you need to maintain your geny as the next trick is to run that with the charger on for 30 mins and then attempt to start up.As soon as they fire up switch the charger off .
Or sit and wait longer guesswork on how long though .

Some routinely rather than end up playing theses shenanigans just change out seemingly good batts every 3 years .
Its the same with cars particularly high end rather than wait just routinely change out .The Ferrari s at main dealers I have used just change them out every 3 years no ifs no buts .....but no break downs and spurious call outs either .

Geny - feels low for a PCB and getting it going after 10 years .Fingers crossed on that , let us know what transpires.
Is something lost in translation re registered post , import dues on the “ card “ to ship it in ? I wonder ?

 

[Alanij]

If it helps answer your question about whether the battery set-up is OK for your boat, my older Antares 10.8 (twin Volvos) has the same set-up, ie two batteries with a crossover switch.

 

[Bouba]

Changing heavy batteries, which the boat designer thinks should be kept in the most inaccessible places, is not easy. I don’t know, you maybe young and strong, but I always think who is cheaper, my marine engineer or my osteopath ? Then I pay to have them installed ?

 

[Portofino]

Changing heavy batteries, which the boat designer thinks should be kept in the most inaccessible places, is not easy. I don’t know, you maybe young and strong, but I always think who is cheaper, my marine engineer or my osteopath ? Then I pay to have them installed ?

Theres another guy in the ER , my guardian, The replacements ( same foot print ) are 50 kg 200 Ah , The ones on the pic are 180 ,s @45 kg .They took away the old .
€ 540 fitted . Domestic set this time .
Google 200 Ah sealed maintenance free batts then x2 .
Not a great saving , but as Bouba infers the hidden price is busting your body slinging 45 kg and 50 kg weights at arms length.
They are outboard of the engines and have to be “bench pressed “up and over , then lifted out .No Tnx !

 

[rafiki_]

If your boat has been on the hard standing for several months it is quite likely for batteries to have degraded. A quick google will give you pricing. Here in the U.K. Battery Megastore are usually competitive. You don’t have to buy the most expensive, if you look after your batteries they should last min 5 years. Your set up sounds right, although you might want to double your domestic capacity with a second battery if there is space. I have never heard of a country specific card for a gennie. Is the techie trying to tell you that the ECU in the gennie needs replacing? If it hasn’t been run for some time, the fuel line will need bleeding to clear any air bubbles. Mine needed this if left for more than 6 months. Easy to do if you can locate the bleed screw. Good luck

 

[baldyash]

I purchased 2 replacement batteries in 2018 from the battery megastore in UK varta lfd140 now currently £175 . They are std wet batteries but were a direct replacement for the originals with both terminals at one end. Yes they are long. 36kg each
They are separate with no cross over facilities on an a 30. My voltmeter on the dash shows no relationship to the actual battery voltage until the alternator kicks in and engine has run for a few minutes! It's always been like this and EVERYTHING checks out so I've put it down to an ECU quirk. I have no genny on board. They are really easy to change if a little heavy. Bow thruster battery last year! Yet again easy job.

 

[rafiki_]

A voltmeter will show batteries at 13.8 volts when on charge. Off charge should be 12.5 ish. This will decay over time, or if powering something. You should not let voltage drop below 11.5 volts, as this could result in irreparable damage to the battery.

 

[Sneds]

SWMBO is asking about the battery guy?

 

[rafiki_]

SWMBO is asking about the battery guy?

Is he a bright Spark?

 

[Lisa&Paul]

Thanks to all for your replies and useful hints and advice , re batteries went to a little village 3 miles outside our marina and found a battery 'specialist ' who had 2 x 135 amp batteries in stock , terminals at same end , did a bit of bartering and got the two for £250 , delivered and fitted at the marina within the hour ! Service with a smile and no hernia for yours truly , let you know in 6 months how good they are lol , well fired up the boat and straight out we went so a result .

On the generator , after speaking to the original owner he said he had to send the control panel ( seated below the throttle in helm ) to Turkey to be re set or something , seems strange to us but will post the genny make and model and maybe someone much cleverer than us can shed some light ...we live in hope !!!!