Gelcoat Cracks and Warranty

[Dave_Snelson]

Paul - how far does your patience stretch? Clearly much further than mine - and I commend you for this.

Gel coat cracks happen for a reason, or reasons...bad reasons!!

OK - lets put it like this, I have an aging Windy (which I am happy for forumites to take the p*ss out of in good measure) and one of the things you don't see anywhere on my boat is gelcoat cracks or crazes. The damn boat is 21 years old this October and not a mark anywhere on the hull.

Tell that to Trader and ask them what they expect their current production boats to look like in 20 years time. Shame the buggers!!

 

[raven]

I'm with Dave on this one.

I've got a Robert Tucker Beagle which is nearly 20 years old and not a single blimmin crack in the gel coat.....anywhere....PAH! modern boat builders!!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Dave_Snelson]

You cheeky booger - are you on the phone right now?

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
Gelcoat, being an un-reinforced layer of organic resin, has a much lower strain to failure than the underlying layers of consolidated fiberglass reinforcement. Add to this the fact that gelcoat is on the outside of the laminate and as such the maximum distance from the neutral axis, gelcoat cracks are inevitable in fiberglass boats which as you know are subject to random loading.

[/ QUOTE ]

He seems to be telling you that your million quid/s worth of boat will probably develop many more cracks like this, and that it is normal and unavoidable.

In the venacular - Bollox!

Does he sell 2nd hand Traders.. I'll bet you will have a job finding the normal cracks he is talking about.

14 year old Moody - stresses that make the whole boat shudder - loads of fibreglass and gelcoat - NO CRACKS!

could this be the last straw where you start the legal action for your money back?

 

[andyball]

is this the join-line? doesn't seem to match up. - from
Build pics

 

[halcyon]

Two piece transome, trim top half of hull trimed to fit bathing plateform.
Have seen Sealine fit a new stern upper quarter to a fire damaged boat, moulded new section in production mould, and when finished you could not tell what was new and what was original. The trader seam is visable from a good distance.
The crack looks odd, normally a stress crack is just that, the one on the Trader looks like it fans out, like a compression failure, and it's been forced out from the structure. So it could be filler, which sounds a bit like the keel problem, and the sub structure is moving.


Brian

 

[fireball]

The plasticine hull is showing it's age .... better get back down to ToysRUS to get some more ...

 

[Gludy]

I am on the boat now
They accept that the large cracks along the joint are a warranty issue.
They have started on one side but stripping off the gelcoat and some hull fibreglass- they then intend to ref-fibreglass a bit, then gelcoat, then paint. They are doing that to both sides.

I will post photos when I get home.

The TV actions have started but I do not want to steal the thunder of the programme except to say the Trader response so far beggars belief.

There is a lot going on behind the scenes which will come to light in time. I can say that the pressure is mounting.

I want to make one thing very clear.

My use of publicity is to try to get a remedy to my boat's problems. Once all those problems and issues are resolved, or once it has gone fully legal I will stop. I am not trying to act in any vindictive manner. Just trying to get my boat fixed and proper compensation

I thank everyone for the advice and will post details of the work being done.

 

[Gludy]

The inside examination of the hull show no reinforcement at the join they are cleaning out the glass from. This is very worrying.
Here is the photo from inside with no build up over what they claim is the joint between the main hull and stern section.

I would have expected a glass build up on the inside seeing as there is nowt on the outside.

This is what they have written today:-

[ QUOTE ]
The photo you attached to your email was of the outside of the boat and
not the inside. There is no evidence of differential movement between
the hull and transom mouldings - as I tried to explain on Saturday the
marks on the outside of the hull are caused by the underlying hard
(structural) filler used to fair the joint between the two mouldings. We
will re-laminate externally (not for structural reasons but merely to
bring the level of the underlying laminate up to a point where we can
merely fill with polyester gelcoat), avoiding the need to use hard
filler before we re-paint.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is my answer:-
[ QUOTE ]
Hull
The photos were taken inside the boat looking out showing the very thin of glass material left after you removed some glass.
What worries me a great deal is that there is no evidence of any reinforcement build up whatsoever on this joint inside the boat!!! One would expect, as you yourself stated on Saturday a build up either on the outside or inside. Given the history of major safety problems on the boat and major structural mistakes, nobody could blame me for being very concerned about this lack of reinforcement. That is why I am seeking reassurance from a structural survey and have asked you to agree. Becaue of the amazing structural mistakes on the boat to date, it is a perfectly reasonable request.


[/ QUOTE ]

Views welcome - this one concerns me a lot.

 

[andyball]

some photo's of the repairs to the err minor cosmetic cracks Here

The internal shot is me pointing right at the 'join' line pinpointed by a torch outside.

 

[DAKA]

I would have expected to see 20 broom handles glassed in to bridge the join.

The join needs to be prevented from moving enough to stop the gel from cracking again.

Aluminium box sections glassed in would be even better, you dont have a weight issue is there a problem with space ?

Get some serious reinforcement put in, the cost is negligible.



(Check with an expert, my experience is from joining light weight white water canoes and broom handles were perfect.)

 

[Wiggo]

Paul,

for the sake of your health, I think you need to stop finding faults in Ocean Deep and look for the positives instead.

Take this latest saga, for example. With the addition of some simple quick release catches and a lifting eye or three, you could use the flybridge crane to lift the entire transom/bathing platform assembly off and store it in the cockpit when not in use. This would save a fortune in marina fees and yet only add a few minutes to your preparations before leaving your berth. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Gludy]

Wiggo - you now, you must have a big brain - I never thought of that!!
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Gludy]

What I can now say about Ocean Deep is that I have sailed her for the last time.

I simply cannot take anymore problems and so any solution must now centre around a permanent solution of the problem for both Trader and myself and that must exclude me keeping her.

I now consider myself boatless!!

 

[petem]

Paul, you've shown amazing fortitude/tenacity to go on the way you have. I for one would have given up long ago. I hope that somehow you can bring matters to a close.

Not for one second suggesting the problems were of your making but perhaps another hobby might be less stressful for you, maybe you could buy a hamster or something!

Pete

 

[andyball]

with the recent discovery that the ply in the engine-room roof is de-laminating - which must raise fears of a similar fate in the aft cabin & galley where water has also leaked in the past; also the teak & holly floor lifting badly in the saloon... and what appears to have been large quantities of water in the hydraulic system for some time etc etc - also doubts at least about the hull 'join' & cracking...

I think I'd do the same thing as you have decided to - I wish you the best in getting a resolution of sorts soon.

 

[Gludy]

Well its now very simple indeed.

What has proected Tarquin is their poor balance sheet relative to the boat's price.
The only tool I have had to counter that is publicity. I can, as you knowm publicise anything as much and as widley as possible providing its the truth.

The first stage was Internet - now is TV and Internet and there are further escalations planned. The objective is to apply pressure to get a refund plus costs.

I believe that if every boater knew the facts about what has happened with myself and Ocean Deep - Tarquin would not sell a boat. That is my opinion.

So, as I escalate, the advertsing, the risk is that Tarquin fold - I am willing to take that risk.

In my opinion the choice for Tarquin is simple and clear - refund the boat price plus costs to date or cease as a business.. I will not allow them to hide behind their poor balance sheet anymore.

I think they now understand this, so whilst continuing with the current advertising, I am holding back on the planned escalation to give them a short time to consider the options.

If a deal is done - I will not be saying a word to anyone other than announcing Tarquin have bought the boat back and refunded my costs.

IMHO am legally and morally entitled to what I seek anyway - my strategy has been to mitigate the poor balnce sheet issues by the use of the truth as a tool to apply pressure.

 

[Wiggo]

Best of luck with it, Paul. It must have been a very hard decision to make, but I think the right one in light of the most recent problems. The defect list seems to be growing and getting more serious rather than shrinking.