Gas regulators - changes in mbar ?

sarabande

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Does anyone have understandable information on what changes the EU is making to move towards a common / universal 30mbar regulator, rather than the current 28 (Butane) and 37 (Propane) please ?


I understand that caravans have been moving over to 30 mbar for a couple of years, but have not been able to find any regulations pertaining to boats.

TIA
 
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Dipper

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I don't know about regulations but the Euro bulkhead regulator I fitted to my boat 2 or 3 years ago can be used with both butane and propane.
 

VicS

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If you really want to splash the cash I think what you are loking for is a 30mb dual fuel regulator certified to EN 12864 annex M

Annexe M indicates that it has all external parts and internal components above the diaphragm made of corrosion resistant materials.
It has vent postioned to that any water that enters willl be drained off the diaphragm.
It also will have overpressure relief

Look at the Gas Boat marine regulators from Socal

I am not aware of any regulations relating to their use. You choice at the moment.
 

VicS

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Some more from the GasBoat website ... The Regulations!

Summary of legal requirements and standards

en 12864 annex M
This standard is for the design and manufacture of
regulators for LPG cylinders to supply appliances installed
in saltwater boats.
• Material in contact with the atmosphere shall be suitably
corrosion resistant. In particular this includes internal
components above the diaphragm.
• The vent shall be on the edge of the diaphragm, in a
suitable location and of suitable size to drain water which
may collect on the diaphragm.
• Shall incorporate an over-pressure relief device, the
vent shall be provided with a pipe connection facing
downwards.
• Operating pressure specification to annex D.


PD 5482 - 3 2005
Codes of practice for LPG installations in boats,
yachts and other vessels: ‘Regulators must
conform to EN 12864.’

BS en ISO 10239 2000
Small craft LPG installation regulation covering
all vessels built after Nov 2000: ‘Regulators must
incorporate a pressure relief valve.’

BS en ISO 10239 2008
Regulators installed in vessels used in a saltwater
environment must conform to EN 12863 annex M.
Systems must include a high pressure gauge.
 

sarabande

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thanks Vic, as usual.

It's part of a maintenance challenge to see if the present system needs anything more than a quick dust down, and a short prayer.


The question arose when I started to read the Gaslow site in connection with buying a couple of adapters for re-filling small gas tanks from a large one.

http://www.gaslow.co.uk/pages/products/list_1.htm
 
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VicS

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I'm just wondering how one would fit a high pressure gauge if one had a camping gaz bottle with a screw on regulator.
 

sarabande

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if I have understood the question correctly... ( that's a wonder at this time of night !)

Gaslow do an adapter which goes into the small CG 907 domed bottle, and then changes to what looks like a standard 21.8 LH thread. So then you attach the normal high pressure regulator and gauge. I think.

In their brochure ( http://www.gaslow.co.uk/pdf/Gaslow-2009-brochure.pdf) there's an illustration on p3. It's item 01-1665.

I've also seen the marine regulator to which you referred. Looks like £££ ouch.
 

saltylegs

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Isn't it great that those wonderful eurocrats are keeping themselves in work in these tough times.
the standards Bs EN 12864:2009, 13785:2008 and 13786:2008 relate to the specification and construction of regulators, each one is about 130 pages and replaces BS 3016 which was about 30 pages.
The main changes that concern us are that the allowable pressure range has been increased, eg. butane regulator @ 29mbar can operate between 22 and 35mbar with 40 mbar lockup.
propane regulator supplying 37mbar can range between 27 and 45mbar with a lockup of 50mbar max.
It also states that the reg or the hose feeding the reg should have a quick action self sealing connection, but then there is a bit of a get out that this maybe over looked until the next review date of the standard.
So as a result of both of the above I can see some interesting debate between surveyor, gas engineer and owner when it comes to getting the craft certified.
The use of the duel fuel caravan regulator does allow the mixed use of butane and propane but should not be connected to to the older appliances that are badged butane 28mbar or 37mbar propane.

I know we will all still do what we want and live with the consequences I just thought I would put some detail of what to expect come survey time.
and don't forget about local bylaws inland waterways and DOT etc.etc.

hope this helps ;)
 

maxi77

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Isn't it great that those wonderful eurocrats are keeping themselves in work in these tough times.
the standards Bs EN 12864:2009, 13785:2008 and 13786:2008 relate to the specification and construction of regulators, each one is about 130 pages and replaces BS 3016 which was about 30 pages.
The main changes that concern us are that the allowable pressure range has been increased, eg. butane regulator @ 29mbar can operate between 22 and 35mbar with 40 mbar lockup.
propane regulator supplying 37mbar can range between 27 and 45mbar with a lockup of 50mbar max.
It also states that the reg or the hose feeding the reg should have a quick action self sealing connection, but then there is a bit of a get out that this maybe over looked until the next review date of the standard.
So as a result of both of the above I can see some interesting debate between surveyor, gas engineer and owner when it comes to getting the craft certified.
The use of the duel fuel caravan regulator does allow the mixed use of butane and propane but should not be connected to to the older appliances that are badged butane 28mbar or 37mbar propane.

I know we will all still do what we want and live with the consequences I just thought I would put some detail of what to expect come survey time.
and don't forget about local bylaws inland waterways and DOT etc.etc.

hope this helps ;)

I suspect the changes in the regulations are as much driven by the manufacturers of the equipment who are looking either for cheaper manufacturing costs or us poor consumers being forced to buy kit we would otherwise not consider.

Your beloved eurocrats on the other hand would rather do nothing and still be paid, so are unlikely to sponsor changes without severe provocation.
 

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