Gas regulator questions

[Shakemeister]

Morning!

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.

The set up for gas on my boat is a bit old fashioned. It goes gas bottle - orange rubber pipe - regulator - fixed copper pipe to down below.

I'm more used to having gas bottle - regulator - rubber pipe - fixed copper pipe to down below.

The current fixed gas regulator appears to be fine, but it's of uncertain age so I intend to get rid of it.

In the meantime, is it worth getting a new regulator and new rubber pipe that connects to the old regulator? Can you put two regulators in line?

Thanks in advance.

 

[William_H]

The rubber pipe to the bottle will mean that you have a higher pressure on the rubber hose. So I would think far safer to have the regulator on the bottle. Assuming you have room in the locker for the reg on top.
Around here these regs with bottle attachment are very cheap and available at the hardware store beciase evey man and his dog has an outdoor gas fired barbecue on a gas bottle with regulator. I bought one recently.
http://www.bunnings.com.au/gasmate-regulator-fitting-with-hose_p3230007 that is 14 sqid to you. Not that I suggest you buy from Oz they must be available in blighty.
Yes if you need to you cna ahve 2 regs in series but I would avoid that if possible. One is all you need to minimise leaks etc.

Interesting note on news last night oz dollar has dropped below 50 p sterling first time in 9 years. Now this has always been a milestone. In the beginning the pound was UK pound in Oz then it became an Oz pound. When we went to decimal we got 2 oz dollars for the oz pound. So historically 50 p for an oz dollar is par with sterling pound.
Looks like oz is going down sterling up. We did well in GFC due to China taking our minerals. China is slowing so we are going down. Way back of course we were very much pegged to UK economy. Things change olewill

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

Your existing rubber hose is rated ~200 psi? really?

Dump that, dump the old regulator (pointless having 2 unless its a really fancy setup) and go with what you are used to.

 

[Shakemeister]

Don't know what the rubber hose is rated at.

I intend to dump the old regulator but that's going to take time with regards the re-plumbing of the gas line.

No doubt I'll have to pay out for a Gas Safe installer to do it.

I was wondering though if you can have two regulators on the same line in the meantime? A regulator should be knocking it down from HP to LP - so when the low pressure gas meets the next regulator, will it get through it if the incoming gas isn't at a high enough pressure? If you see what I mean.

 

[VicS]

Your current set-up with a bulkhead mounted regulator is perfectly normal.
It gives you the flexibility of swapping between butane and propane if you want to, provided a dual fuel (30mb) regulator is fitted simply by using the appropriate connecting hose.
Orange hose is high pressure hose but usually one would use ready made pigtails with crimped on end fittings, for the regulator at one end and for a butane bottle or a propane bottle at the other end.
Your choice to opt for a bottle mounted regulator if you wish. Black low pressure hose can then be used to connect it to the copper pipe and also to connect the copper pipe to the appliance(s).
Personally I would keep the bulkhead mounted option.

Consider the wisdom of fitting a marine regulator that complies with Annexe M of the specs for regulators.

Consider also fitting an Alde bubble leak detector.

Maybe also an electrically operated valve that can be remotely closed . For convenience, not as a substitute for closing the bottle valve, and/or linked to a gas alarm.

If you include a pressure test point it will enable the relevant tests on the new system to be carried out easily.

You can carry out the work yourself but having the system inspected and tested by a qualified fitter might be advisable

It is generally recommended that regulators are replaced every 10 years and that hoses are replaced every 5 years.

It would be worth familiarising yourself with a chapter 7 of the Boat Safety Scheme Essential Guide and the revisions to it.

I cannot comment on using two regulators in series. I have not tried it.

 

[VicS]

It would be worth familiarising yourself with a chapter 7 of the Boat Safety Scheme Essential Guide and the revisions to it.

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/180428/bss guide 2005 complete web.pdf

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/195630/summary of key ecp changes jan 2013 final 1.0.pdf

 

[rogerthebodger]

Have a look at Gaslow products

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/.../Categories/Gaslow_Products/Gaslow_Regulators

They have both bulkhead and bottle mounted regulators.

There is no point in having 2 regulators in series if the output pressures are the same, in fact the second regulator may not work correctly at the it required a input pressure higher that the set output pressure to work correctly.

I do have 2 regulators in series but the first one (bottle attached) is a high pressure for my gas BBQ then I have a normal 30mb for my gas stove and water heater.

 

[VicS]

Have a look at Gaslow products

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/.../Categories/Gaslow_Products/Gaslow_Regulators

They have both bulkhead and bottle mounted regulators.

There is no point in having 2 regulators in series if the output pressures are the same, in fact the second regulator may not work correctly at the it required a input pressure higher that the set output pressure to work correctly.

I do have 2 regulators in series but the first one (bottle attached) is a high pressure for my gas BBQ then I have a normal 30mb for my gas stove and water heater.

Except that they only do a bottle mounted marine one http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/...ries/Gaslow_Products/Gaslow_Marine_Regulators

For a full range of marine regulators, including the bulkhead mounted dual fuel one, see the GasBOAT range from Will Hayward http://www.whayward.com/Results.cfm?category=23&secondary=24

You are thinking along the same lines as I am regarding two regulators in series.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Except that they only do a bottle mounted marine one http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/...ries/Gaslow_Products/Gaslow_Marine_Regulators

Yes but you could always get a high pressure LPG pipe form somewhere like BES that will fit one end to the gas cylinder and the other end to fit the cylinder connector on the regulator.

I looked at the gaslow high pressure pipes and note they give a 20 year life. Don't know if they would give the same life for low pressure.

Gaslow say " The hose is built to standard EN10380 and should be changed every 20 years. "

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/...67/Products/01-6020-SS/SubProducts/01-6020-SS

 

[VicS]

Yes but you could always get a high pressure LPG pipe form somewhere like BES that will fit one end to the gas cylinder and the other end to fit the cylinder connector on the regulator.

I looked at the gaslow high pressure pipes and note they give a 20 year life. Don't know if they would give the same life for low pressure.

Gaslow say " The hose is built to standard EN10380 and should be changed every 20 years. "

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/...67/Products/01-6020-SS/SubProducts/01-6020-SS

but they say 4/5 years for rubber hoses http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/...rhdmmu67/Products/01-6010/SubProducts/01-6010

 

[rogerthebodger]

but they say 4/5 years for rubber hoses http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/...rhdmmu67/Products/01-6010/SubProducts/01-6010

Interesting Vic

I note this " However, to avoid regulator failure through oily plasticiser contamination, we recommend the use of the Gaslow Stainless Steel Hoses. "
So I it could be loss plasticiser in the low pressure that makes it necessary to replace every 4/5 years. In any case the low pressure hose would be down stream of the regulator so the oily plasticiser could not contaminate the regulator but could damage the down stream equipment. I there for wonder if the pipe supplied in the UK id "not fit for purpose" if it leaks out oily plasticiser that can damage down stream equipment. The low pressure pipe as shown seems not to comply with the same EN standard as the high pressure stuff.

BTW the flexible LPG pipe I purchase local does not seem to have a defined life span like the UK stuff.

Does pipe used to carry diesel or petrol have a limited life as LPG which I would think would have a similar chemical effect on the pipes lining.

 

[VicS]

Interesting Vic

I note this " However, to avoid regulator failure through oily plasticiser contamination, we recommend the use of the Gaslow Stainless Steel Hoses. "
So I it could be loss plasticiser in the low pressure that makes it necessary to replace every 4/5 years. In any case the low pressure hose would be down stream of the regulator so the oily plasticiser could not contaminate the regulator but could damage the down stream equipment. I there for wonder if the pipe supplied in the UK id "not fit for purpose" if it leaks out oily plasticiser that can damage down stream equipment. The low pressure pipe as shown seems not to comply with the same EN standard as the high pressure stuff.

BTW the flexible LPG pipe I purchase local does not seem to have a defined life span like the UK stuff.

Does pipe used to carry diesel or petrol have a limited life as LPG which I would think would have a similar chemical effect on the pipes lining.

I'd not seen that about losing plasticizer until I saw it on the Gaslow site today. It could well be the reason for the limited life span of "rubber" hose. It lasts a lot longer than 5 years but I recently tried to use a length of LP hose which I'd had on the shelf for a few years. It looked Ok and flexed without any sign of cracking but when I pushed it onto the Fulham nozzle it split longitudinally!

It's all supposed to comply with the relevant standard and is marked with the standard number and the date of manufacture.To be fair the stuff that failed was a good bit more than 5 years from its manufacture date. I thought that having not been used it would be OK, but not so. This was LP hose. LP and HP hoses comply with BS3212:1991 but they are designated as Type 1 and type 2 respectively but I have no idea what the standards say.

I've had a similar problem with the injector spill back hoses on a small diesel car, They failed due to splits in the ends after a very short time in service but I think I had used some hose that had been on the garage shelf for a few years... since the previous time I'd changed them so the "new" stuff was in fact as old as what it was replacing,


Just found this on a website:

How long do flexible LPG hoses Last?
The British Standards recommend that flexible LPG hoses are replaced every 5 years. This is in part due to the aggressive nature of LPG, it slowly takes the plasticiser out of the hose material. Additionally other enviromental factors can cause the material to perish. It is important to use flexible hose that is designed for use with LPG. In the UK this is made to and will be marked with BS 3212:1991 (Type 2 (Orange) for HIgh pressure OR Type 1 (Black)for Low pressure) and the date of manufacture (mm/yy). In practise unless there is a record of when the hose was fitted it is best to replace any hose that has a manufacturing date more than five years old.
Many new yachts built in Europe have hoses made to other standards and are often have a tag marked 'Replace before' and a date. Again if this date is passed it is best practice to change the hose.

 

[Shakemeister]

Thank you - I never even knew about LPG / plasticizer interaction. Everyday's a schoolday.

Definitely replacing the orange pipe at least.

If anyone has any more comments I'd love to read them in the meantime many thanks everyone.