Gas piping

[AndrewB]

CORGI Catch 22.

My insurers said the same when I wanted to re-route the pipe and fit an emergency stop-cock last winter. A DIY job is not illegal, but if something goes wrong - can you see the insurers accepting it was done COMPETENTLY?

I soon found no yard or fitter would touch the job unless they are CORGI registered, for the same reason. Most aren't, mine said they used to be but found that as soon as they got one of their lads trained he promptly left for richer pickings, so it wasn't worth it.

Most CORGI guys won't go near boats. The only one the yard could suggest lives 30 miles away, charges all travel time (unverifiable) at full rate, keeps people waiting all day, and the yard 'can't recommend' his workmanship.

Meanwhile, a marina contract clause is that gas fittings are to be done 'by a qualified person'. The few cooker fires that have happened in this marina are all down to alcohol and paraffin stoves.

I'm not saying what we did, but we haven't blown up yet.

 

[MedMan]

Have a look at:

http://www.socal.co.uk/marinenotes.html

or send an email to:

southampton@socal.co.uk

Socal is Southampton Calor Gas. Peter Spreadborough is the man to ask for. He is the acknowledged expert on Calor Gas on boats and he is very helpful. He is the chap who wrote the excellent booklet on using Calor Gas when bluewater cruising.

I got Sothampton Calor Gas centre to make up the following for me, all mounted on a wooden board:

Double Wall Block with high pressure tails for Small Calor Butane Bottles (These also fit Camping Gaz bottles via a converter valve)
Regulator
Solenoid Valve
Bubble Leak Detector

This they did for little more than the cost of the parts. I mounted the board in my gas locker and completed the rest of the installation myself. The bubble detector confirmed (and reconfirms at any time I wish) that my joints were gas tight.



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[steve_cronin]

You trying to pick a fight Meldrew?

Where did I suggest the use of calortite on compression joints?

Read the bloody posts you old git!!

Steve Cronin

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[graham]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

Gas regs are a murky world full of grey areas.

You definitely cannot have a hole out of the gas locker for the pipe ,you use bulkhead fittings.

If you try to pull the pipe in one length through several holes it will end up work hardened and bent out of shape (a mess)

There are pages of regs governing what can and cant be used for sleeving material ,all open to interpretation by different surveyors. The use of BS fittings solves both above problems .And you will get a neat professional job.

Compression joints wont start leaking if the pipe work leading to them is clipped to stop movement.

The trick is not to leave anything some over zealous insurance surveyor can whine about later.



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[victor_meldrew]

Re: You trying to pick a fight Meldrew?

Not with you, its obviously not worth the time and unlike the majority on this forum, you are obviously no gentleman. Having looked at your contributions on other threads you are clearly a self-opinionated, pompous, puffed-up fool who is totally intolerant of any view that is contrary to your own. For God's sake, get a life

And for the record

a) I said Calor-tite had no place in any 'proper' gas installation. This is a qualified view

b) I quoted its use on compression joints as an example of the dangers amateurs lay themselves open to (and I bet you have done it, haven't you.)

So perhaps you would now read the posts, you pretentious prat

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

I was told by corgi guy that you can use a bulkead fitting and drill it through so the pipe is not broken but has adequate protection.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk/Honda_00.html>Honda Formula 4-Stroke racing</A>

 

[Bejasus]

Re: Yes...

Why don't you just check <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/h00>http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/h00

 

[MainlySteam]

Re: Yes...

Steve, I really agree with your comment about not having a valve next to the cooker (or indeed any other gas appliance eg calorifier), unless, of course one has a real big yacht. What is a good idea is a solenoid shut off in the cylinder locker operable from in the galley - we tend to rely on that instead of manually turning turning the cylinder valves off, except when leaving the boat... probably should not rely on it, but we do.

Just to stir up some responses, our gas distribution from the solenoid valve on the regulator is all plastic (approved tube of course) and all joints are done with ss hose clips (they are reliable and if a leak the fault can always be easily remedied). There are only two joints between the cylinders and the actual connection on the cooker and that is at a tee branch for the calorifier, and that tee is located visible in a locker that has to be opened every time we fill our water tanks ie it is easy to remember to regularly check it. This was a professional installation and an acceptable solution out here.

John

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[plombier]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

Not wanting to go too far off thread (or indeed off forum) but I would have thought that with your "vast experience" of dealing with your boats' gas installations then you could have easily changed the boiler in your house yourself as you are allowed to do by the Gas Safety Regulations. That is if you consider yourself "competent" and could prove it in a court of law if things went wrong. Lawyers have a field day with the word "competent" as they also do with the word "reasonable"

IMHO your comments about CORGI guys being "earring wearing white van plumbers who failed their GCSE's" whose "registration is a licence to print money" and have "the right to live like a Spice Girl's husband" probably stem from the fact that you feel agrieved at being conned twice - once by the person who told you the work had to be done by a CORGI installer and secondly by the installer who charged you £1700. You did, of course, get more than one quote for the job didn't you??

I am a CORGI engineer. I do not have an earring, do not drive a white van, did not fail my GCE's (as they were then), do not have a licence to print money (unlike certain financial institutions) and my wife is definitely not a Spice Girl [mores the pity because then I would not have to work and to put up with supercilious comments from people who think they know it all] - ouch, sorry dear -only joking

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[steve_cronin]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

You are like hen's teeth then aren't you?

Steve Cronin

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[steve_cronin]

Ahh So you don\'t call....

...yourself Victor Meldrew to precipitate a reaction then?

Steve Cronin

(real name)

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[steve_cronin]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

Everybody knows MY job (or so they think) but it isn't illegal for them to do the job themselves NOR have their paternal overlord (Transco in your case) leading people to think that it is.

I certainly wouldn't attempt an industrial paint baking installation but a small pleasure boat cooker is hardly rocket science is it?

Yes I did obtain other quotes for the office boiler. One was over £2200, there was the one I quoted and then there was a £3150 one. The owner of the first company drove a Porsche the latter was British Gas ('nuff said!) so I chose the cheapest one who made do with a Jaguar (when not driving his white van).

Around here the "tradesmen" make meggabucks when compared to teachers, nurses and pharmacists. I was told by one builder that his men demand in exces of £200 a day. I for one find that state of affairs objectionable. Couple this with my desire to be totally self sufficient on the boat and I don't think that many can find this an unreasonable stance.

Steve Cronin

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[poter]

why is £200/day objectionable?

I'm sorry Steve but thats a faily cheap wage for a tradesman! If they are time served. And I bet they are all self employed and working 10 to 12 hour days.

As of September they should all carry Skill Cards. As required by the government.
More expense! So you should ask to see them.

The building industry in this country is actually on its knees with the skills crisis, and still there is no investment in junior engineers and apprentiships.

Its not easy being a plumber.........

poter.

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[MainlySteam]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

Steve, you have already won this one with me, but with those who are them you never will. Since medieval times "craftsmen" have formed guilds to protect their interests and isolate others from doing the same work unless they have done an apprenticeship and been therefore initiated into the society of trades.

The only reason they have to create this cloak of semi secrecy and control is because the work they do is in fact often not very clever at all. The interesting thing is that cloak of secrecy/protectionism is also maintained between the "guilds" so one trade cannot do anything which is the traditional work of the other.

If there is something on my boat I do not have the tools for, or do not have the time to do the only people I let near it are those I trust implicitly. The boatyard I use knows this without me ever telling them so (they also built the boat), and they always ensure that they give me someone I trust. Strangely, they usually turn out to not be time served tradesmen. The best of the lot is in fact an ex policeman whose sport was sailing; he is excellent and happy to share his experience, and allow me to work with him if I so wish, without there ever being a thought that I am not one of the "initiated".

John

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[steve_cronin]

Re: why is £200/day objectionable?

Depends on where in the country you are.

My son's rather tatty lodgings bathroom was in dire need of re-furbishment (East london) and the landlady had the very devil of a job getting it sen to. All they want is mega contracts. Even here in rural Leicestershire it is almost impossible to get a simple jobn done. They all want £50K plus house re-furbs but will do your "little2 job as a favour at a fantastic price.

DIY reigns - after all this is a PRACTICAL BOAT OWNER web forum!

Steve Cronin

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[steve_cronin]

sion joints wont start leaking if ...

...the pipe work leading to them is clipped to stop movement."

That is just ther problem which makes the difference between a domestic and a pleasure boat installation. In a boat movement of bulkheads and areas of the hull is quite likely. As you know, it doesn't take much displacement to distort the olive in a compression joint. The thought of having 14 of them in hidden parts of the boat frightens me. I trust a continuous pipe far more.

Hardening shouldn't happen if the routing is selected or modified to minimise it and no severe bends are contemplated.

Steve Cronin

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[steve_cronin]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

IMO that's even more dangerous as it provides hard spots which can lead to localised fracture due to the inevitable flexing of ANY leisure boat hull & bulkheads.

Steve Cronin

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[StephenW]

Believe older gas pipe used to be 1/4" but 5/16th" is now te recommended diameter to enable adequate gas supply to cooker if all jets are lit.

Get or make a manometer to check fittings/installation - just a looped clear plastic pipe with water in with calibrations and a rubber bulb to pressurise. If you test at 72cm head height and leave for 5-10 min it should be OK if there s no significant change.

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[StephenW]

Believe older gas pipe used to be 1/4" but 5/16th" is now te recommended diameter to enable adequate gas supply to cooker if all jets are lit.

Get or make a manometer to check fittings/installation - just a looped clear plastic pipe with water in with calibrations and a rubber bulb to pressurise. If you test at 72cm head height and leave for 5-10 min it should be OK if there s no significant change.

Also worthwhile fitting a gas test point and shut off valve if you don't have them already

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[stamfordian]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

I think you will find that it,s not the guilds of trdeman that have bought in the ever increasing legislation on gas installers etc but the goverment,rightly so in moderation.
Why did they do this....because icreasingly the attitude towards gas work was as shown in this thread....oh it,l be alright i,ve read a book.......or the landlord with dodgey appliances ...too dear to get serviced....how many died??
WHOOF WHOOF.

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