gas lockers in older boats

Birdseye

Birdseye

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my boat has a gas locker ()complete with overboard drain) inside the cockpit pocker, next to the fuel tank. This does not comply with BS 5482 part 3 which was brought out after the boat was built. The insurers say the boat must be modified, and the gas locker must be re-built on deck where any leakage that does not make it through the drain and escapes the gas tight seal of the lid can safely dissipate.

Anyone else had this problem? Anyone found a solution?
 
I don't know the answer, but will be following this one through because I may be about to have exactly the same problem. I rebuilt my gas locker last winter, and, though it is a lot better than the original, it is still in the same position.

I have to get a survey done for the insurance company at the end of the season, and I am wondering how best to handle this. It is the only thing that I am not confident about.
 
Is it not posible to partition the locker and make it a top access only, as long as it is gastight to a level over the regulator it will be OK
 
Interestingly I have a Virgo Voyager, with seperate gas locker in the cockpit. I rather naively assumed it drained overboard through a moulding, with no possibility of leakage. I was astonished, in removing a quarter berth access panel, to see a plastic tube running from under the gas locker out to the transom. the pipe sits in a 'u' form, so presumably allowing gas residue to settle at the low point. any leakage clearly goes straight into the bilge......

Not sure what to do.....presumably replace the pipe in case of ageing - anyone any advice?

Best wishes

J
 
Can the insurers insist that the regulations be applied retrospectively? - I thought not. It's like your car insurer insisting you fit rear seat belts even though the law requiring them was passed after you car was built. It was deemed safe at the time of construction.
 
Insurers don't like paying out hence they are trying to lessen their exposure to claim. Does anyone want to make a claim because they have suffered a gas explosion ? They are under no obligation to offer insurance to anyone and in the light of experience are advising best practice.

Butane and propane are heavier than air and their lockers must be drained overboard if gas is not to accumulate and form an explosive mixture.
 
I suggest they read 5482 part3...
Maybe you should talk to a gas inspection person, as I'm sure you're insurance will want it certified as tested and ask to see the full spec, they should have a copy. I've found there are often details in the regulations that are ignored by some experts for an easy life. I don't believe in breaking the rules but applying them within the limitations of the vessel is sometimes legal and practical.

I quote
1. Stowage of gas containers

Wherever Possible gas containers should be stowed on the open deck or in a well-ventilated compartment on deck so that any gas which may leak can disperse rapidly. Where deck stowage is impracticable and the containers have to be stowed in a compartment below deck, such a space should be adequately ventilated to a safe place and any electrical equipment in the space should be of flame-proof construction.

Reference source:http://iwn.iwai.ie/v29i3/lpg.PDF
 
http://iwn.iwai.ie/v29i3/lpg.PDF
This is the other half of the article by Roger Lorenz covering gas storage, looking at one of the above postings? the gas locker vent pipe on my MCA coded/gas tested boat was not fire proof? and I didn't think this was a requirement.....it just says Min 15mm diameter for up to 13Kg of gas stored??

Maybe a forum member has a copy of the BS regs? that could be passed around.
 
Curious ...

I have no argument with regs ... but >

Walk around the marina anywhere and look at the boats ..

a) How many have deck gas-lockers ?
b) How many have gas lockers that can actually be seen ??
c) How many have gas lockers built into cockpit benches / lockers ???

I think the vast majority have lockers as you describe for your boat ....

Now this next is given as a point - not a solutrion or argument against the regs .... OK ?? >
And the daft thing is that i) the gas is heavier than air and will sink to bottom of locker - till pressure / volume is enough to fill the locker and overflow the lid ... so they say gas-tight lid - creating a pressure vessel as the drain even if a large one will have problem coping with the gas generation and drain if a serious leak ... In my observation and experience - there is no marine gas locker of any type deck or locker that can cope with serious gas leak - regardless of construction - my company works with Latvian Propane Gas daily and we have first hand experience of gas generation and vapourisation of liquid gas ... The regs as I see them and locker systems advised are really to cater for minor / moderate leaks and prevent escalation into greater risk.

Most older boats like mine would have serious problem to craete a decl mounted gas locker ... as there is nowhere to do it unless on top of cabin or on foredeck ...

Interestingly - I shall be taking a closer look at my locker to ensure it is as good as possible in its present location ...

The whole issue could lead onto some costly and difficult work for many of the older boats ... and lets remind ourselves that actually sea-going / coastal boats are not fully governed by the same regs as Inland Waterways .... it is "some" Insurance Companys applying THEIR requirements taken from such documents ...

But of course BE SAFE ....
 
I had this problem, and changed from gas to Origo cooker. A good option particulalry if you don't do alot of cooking and can live without a grill.
 
I had to have a survey this year and there was no provision on board for stowing the cylinders.

In the end I opted for two cages that mount on the pushpit. One has a flexible hose to a deck fitting and tap. The other holds the spare bottle. Copper pipe then runs though to another fitting with tap. Then flexible hose onto the cooker. I also have fitted a bubble glass to check for leaks. The regulator also needs protecting from the weather.

Having the cages means I havn't hacked the boat and restricted myself to one type of gas or bottle.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is it not posible to partition the locker and make it a top access only, as long as it is gastight to a level over the regulator it will be OK

[/ QUOTE ]

Not correct, so I am told. My gas locker is exactly as you describe, but because the lid is not sealed and has a thumb hold to allow you to open it, and because it is inside a cockpit locker, it allegedly doesnt comply with BS.

height above the regulator is irrelevant, apparently.
 
Re: Curious ...

Insurance companies are like any other business - they can chose who they do business with and on what terms. As you can.. So you cant argue with the BS requirement - only go elsewhere or negotiate it away.

But the link to the Calor site (http://www.calormarineshop.co.uk/boat_safety_scheme/lpg_installations_7.pdf) gives even more cause for worry. If this pdf is actually based on the latest BS (not totally clear), then my boat cant comply. The present installation fails because the gas locker is next to the diesel tank inside the cockpit locker. Any attempt to put the cylinders in a deck locker would fail because the regulator on the top of the cylinder would be above the bridgedeck into the cabin and because the cockpit lockers are not fully watertight (ie with pressure resistant seals etc).

So the only alternative is on the sugar scoop or in the anchor locker - except that neither are more than the required 1 meter away from any hatches or openings into the boat! Let alone 1 meter away from any source of ignition like the exhaust.

So on my boat it looks like salad and squash only! But to be a bit less facetious, I bet that very few new boats comply with these regs and certainly almost no older boats
 
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