Gas Locker

[Miker]

My two ring hob is is directly connected to a camping Gaz bottle by a 2 foot long flexible hose which runs through a conduit to a cockpit locker. The Gaz bottle is stored in an open topped wooden box with a drain hose running to a step at the back of the cockpit which is open to the sea. I got a quote for £158 for a plastic gas locker and am thinking of seeing whether I could get a metal one made for a good bit cheaper. But first I would welcome some advice:
1. Can the locker have a hinged flap for a lid and something to keep it shut or should it have a lid with a lip as shown on the plastic box in the PBO?
2. Can the dimensions of the box be such that the two Camping Gaz bottles fit snuggly against the sides? Or would there be an unaceptable transfer of heat in the event of a fire?
3. Would it still be OK to run a flexible gas hose from a welded steel pipe outlet on the gas locker? I am wondering about the fire risk of a flexible hose.
4. If I use a steel pipe from the gas locker, can I fix a copper pipe directly to it?
5. Is it OK to run flexible hose or copper tube through a hole in a GRP fitting with suitable protection to stop chafing? It would be very difficult to fit a bulkhead fitting.
6. Where can I find out about bulkhead fittings on the WEB and are there any that do not require cutting the pipe and so creating another risk of a leak?
7. Where do I put a bubbler device? Presumably it should go in the gas locker upstream from any pipe joints.

 

[ccscott49]

The system you already have seems adequate to me a lid might be a good idea, and seal where the pipe goes from the box to the cooker, the drain over the side is fine. As long as the flexible hose is of the correct type and in date, I see no reason to change it for anything else especially as it's only 2 feet, replace it every year!, two cylinders in the locker is also OK by my reckoning. If you have a serious fire, it wont make much difference if the cylinders are in a steel locker, welded metal pipes are not the best way of transfering gas, welds can be porous. Basically keep it simple and well maintained and it will be fine. The bubble leak tester, goes directly downstream of the cylinder. I've seen lots of long term liveaboards, with the gas cylinder, fixed to the aft rail, well away from any hatches, with a flexible pipe leading below, no chance of gas getting below, as it dispearses very quickly outside, even in very still air. If your really worried about it, in the event of a seriuos fire, throw the cylinder over the side, they aren't difficult to handle.

 

[dickhicks]

Not sure about PBO article - either should be OK as long as the cyliner is contained and can't fall out when you heel.
Certainly you can fit two cylinders side by side but make sure that both are fixed when lid closed - don't forget you'll need room for a regulator...
The only flexible pipe allowed is from the regulator to a bulkhead fitting and from a tap near your cooker to the cooker itself.
Steel pipe is acceptable BUT it will rust! Best to use copper.
Only copper or steel pipe can run thro' a bulkhead with a plastic grommet for chafe protection.
You should be able to get fittings from a Chandlery or a local Caravan centre which will probably be cheaper.
Bubbler goes immediately after the regulator.
Calor Gas do a leaflet detailing all the regulations and recommended installation.

 

[Spyro]

I suppose it depends on wether you need a certificate as an insurance condition or for a survey or just peice of mind see this site for all the details you will need. www.socal.co.uk/bluewater/lpg1.htm
Be warned after reading it you will want to go for something other than gas!

 

[VMALLOWS]

I keep my gas cylinders in the open cockpit. That way I can use two 7.5Kg cylinders on a 29' boat. The gas price is a small fraction of the price you pay with 'Camping Gaz' cylinders...especially if you use a lesser known/local brand.

Also (at least in my boat) the cockpit drains provide a perfect gas drain.

When abroad for any length of time try to scounge an empty cylinder of the local flavour....not usually difficult.....or even pay the deposit on a new bottle (France always seems to throw in a new regulator free).

 

[Miker]

I did read the Socal web page but it left me wondering what the gas locker was for. I can well see the need to prevent gas from accumulating in bilges etc and hence a drained gas locker but am wondering how a half hour fire proofing of the locker helps when the drain pipes and gas pipe itself are not similarly fire proof.
Cetainly a flexible gas hose must not be allowed to chafe but is it that less fire proof than a copper pipe?

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

I am in the process of getting my vessel up to regs, which is something you all will have to do in the very near future, this is from talking to a few insurance companies in the last couple of weeks.

Some points following this thread:>

1. Flexible hose should not pass through bulkheads, flexible hose should only be used between the regulator and the bulkhead mounted fixed pipe, fixed pipe should be either stainless or solid drawn Copper tube made to BS EN 1057, flexible pipe should be made to BS 3212 pt2. These should be marked on the pipe. Flexible hose should be kept to a minimum practical length and not exceed 1 metre.

2. The gas supply should leave the locker by fixed pipework via a bulkhead fitting. Today I have just fitted a new gas pipe which goes in one continuous run from the flexible pipe fitting to the tap by the oven, the pipe is fixed at minimum 500mm lengths and has compression fittings at each end. Solder fittings are not permitted. I refuse to break this run by fitting bulkhead fittings as I believe this would add weakness to the system. Grommets have been used where pipe goes though bulkheads.

3. Connecting to the cooker or appliance, All appliances should be fitted with an isolation valve. Needle valves and gate valves are not permitted. Cocks should be fitted with handles which indicate the open or closed position. Fixed appliances should be connected by solid pipework. Gimballed appliances should be connected with flexible hose (may be armoured). >> My oven is not gimballed, but I have used armoured flexible hose from the cock to the oven, this allows the oven to be pulled forward for inspection and to get access to the test point on the rear of the oven. I hope the corgi inspector that I will have to employ to inspect the system will agree with this, I do not want to use a fixed pipe here.

4. The Gas locker >> should allow the cylinders to be secured in an upright position. To prevent the liquefied gas entering the regulator and pipework. Should be constructed of materials to give 30 minutes fire resistance. To protect the cylinders in the event of fire or impact damage. Sheet metal of 20w.g. 0.9mm or G.R.P. of 5mm thickness should be adequate. Should have an internal drain not less than 19mm at low level to the outside of the hull 75mm above the deepest loaded waterline. Should be large enough to allow access to regulator and associated equipment . Should not be used to stow other items that may cause damage, obstruct the drain or ignite leaked LPG. Any opening into the locker should not be situated in the accommodation, engine compartment or fuel / battery spaces. Should not be located near to heat sources. The gas supply should leave the locker by fixed pipework via a bulkhead fitting. To retain the gas soundness and fire resistance of the locker box. Note flexible pipes are not permitted to pass though bulkheads due to the risk of mechanical damage. Regulators should be replaced if more than 10 years Old.

Information sourced from < http://www. socal.co.uk > and < http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com >

Please follow these links for further information, I have tried to keep to facts but will not be held responsible for and misinterpretation of above information.

Bubble testers seem only to be advised rather than regulation, a leak detection system should be fitted for peace of mind IMHO. I have just fitted a new regulator which incorporated a gaslow leak detection and gas pressure available, was £20 from a calor gas center in Pwllheli.



<font color=blue> Julian </font color=blue>

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ukstaffords.com>http://www.ukstaffords.com</A>

 

[VMALLOWS]

Julian,

Your comments noted. A bit late to take them in fully. I'll certainly study and
append comments as appropriate. More generally, WHY are we subject to (arbitrary?) rules drawn up by people (organisations?) who think they know best??
In particular, who drew up these so called CORGI regulations? (as if I didn't know).

Vic

 

[Sammy]

Not Corgi, The regs are from British Standards Institute and Health and Safety Commision. Generally come under the Gas Safety (installation and Use) Regulations 1994. amongst others. Then you have the Boat Safety Scheme as well which is supposed to be based on the above but not quite. unless your a houseboat or a charter boat then the above does apply. Confused? well so is the whole industry. But basically the regs do make sense even if it is a pain when you have to rebuild half the boat to comply. Gas does make a big mess if it does explode?
Have fun

www.BoatsThames.com

 

[claymore]

Hmm
Always had you down as a solid fuel man really - barrel of burning tar on deck to attract attention and all that.

regards
Claymore

 

[ccscott49]

What does it say about a barbecue, with a gas cylinder. stood beside it with a flexible pipe from it to the barby? The guy only has two feet of flexible pipe. IMHO it would be more likely to have a leak, by having a through bulkhead fitting, with flexibles and clips on each side, rather than having a flexible all the way, through a grommet, inspected and inspected/changed every six months. But of course thats not within the regs. I admittedly have an instalation, with copper pipe through bulkhead fitting and short flexibles, with a draining locker. But my gas cylinders are 40 feet away from my cooker etc.

 

[Miker]

Need for breather tube?

I've read the stuff on the WEB and it seems to me that the gas locker does not need a breather pipe at its top, only one at the bottom to drain any gas away. I hope that I have not missed anything in the small print as I do not want to cut another hole in the hull if I can possibly avoid doing so.

 

[claymore]

Re: Need for breather tube?

Gas is heavier so it will end up at the bottom of the locker so I think you are correct in your thinking.

regards
Claymore

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: Need for breather tube?

I think what they are saying is the if you do not have a top breather and the locker is sealed gas will not escape cleanly due to the vacuum that would be left, this will not be a problem if you do not screw down the lid on the locker.

I could be wrong, but that is what I have made of it.


<font color=blue> Julian </font color=blue>

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ukstaffords.com>http://www.ukstaffords.com</A>

 

[Strathglass]

Re: Need for breather tube?

As far as I am aware the current BSS states that both drain and venting holes must be fitted in a LPG locker. I have had to do this as I may spend some time on Loch Ness and the Caledonian Canal.

Iain

 

[Miker]

Re: Need for breather tube?

Yes, that's what I think. I'll assume that until shown to be wrong.

 

[claymore]

Oh Sod it

Drill another few holes - it'll lighten the boat if nothing else

regards
Claymore

 

[Miker]

Re: Oh Sod it

I have a phobia against drilling holes in my boat! Is it a recognised medical condition?

 

[claymore]

Re: Oh Sod it

Hold steady my man - be of strength and of resolve
Failing that, pretend its someone else's boat

regards
Claymore

 

[Bejasus]

Try here.

http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/h00