Gas goes up, well it had to happen!

[BarryH]

I was reading this on another forum that I visit. I know a few of you run on gas,so will it affect you?

Road Fuel Gases 7.35
The duty on road fuel gases has not increased since Budget 2001, in line with the Government's commitment to freeze these duties until 2004 at the earliest. Budget 2003 announced a consultation on how best to ensure that future support for road fuel gases continues to reflect environmental and other policy objectives. Following this extensive consultation, the Government has decided that the environmental benefits offered by liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) no longer justify the level of duty differential it currently
receives, while the long period of high duty support has allowed the necessary infrastructure to be developed. The Government will gradually increase the duty rate for LPG over the next three years, setting duty differentials on a path towards a level commensurate with the fuel's environmental benefits. Consistent with the Government's commitment to give three-year certainty on duty differentials for alternative fuels, future differentials for the next three years will be announced in Budget 2004.

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[hlb]

So. Runing on gas is not an option. They just want exorbitant Tax anyway they can. Diesel is reasonably safe. They would create up roar if that was effected and loose credibility from all walkes if life. Gass is fairly easy meat. Not many use that. Not many votes to be lost. So Give them some shit. I was going to say some thing different. But thought it might offend !! and be zapped!

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[britemp]

It's been around on in the lpg groups for a while. The basis of the statement is that modern cars pollute less so the differential of pollution between petrol and lpg has narrowed.

The truth of the matter is that most cars converted are older so the differential actually remains the same for some time. The LPGA have commissioned a study which shows there are considerable environmental reasons to maintain cheap lpg which the govt have accepted and the big petrol companies have spent millions installing thousands of lpg pumps at petrol stations and have no intention of losing the revenue so are leaning on the govt as we speak.

The consensus seems to be that the price will remain pretty constant for quite a while.

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[longjohnsilver]

Well you've already offended me as I converted my car to lpg just a few weeks ago!!

Still can't see them putting large tax increases into force in the short term when they've actively persuaded peps to convert by giving grants (which I didn't qualify for) and preaching the environmental advantages of lpg.

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[hlb]

Dnt know. It was only a few years ago, the government persuaded me to buy a diesel car. Cheaper fuel and more eco friendly, they said. Soon as I bought one they put the diesel up, then said it was not good for the envirolment. It's still a dam sight cheaper than petrol though and dont break down.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[BarryH]

I'm in the process of forking out dosh for a conversion for my Range Rover. I let my bro do it first to see what his weekly running costs will be. At the moment he's using about 36 quids worth of LPG a week. Which when you consider his RR is his daily hack thats not bad. I can get down the end of the road and back on 30 quids worth of squirt.


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[longjohnsilver]

Just typical!

Bloody govt extole the virtues of lpg and then when enuf peeps have converted then say it's not so green after all and then up the tax. Total shysters, the lot of them.

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[Dave_Snelson]

Re: Just typical!

I couldn't agree more!! Lying cheating b*stard shysters, the lot of 'em. I'm bound to be biased of course, because I carry 74 galls of the stuff on my boat.

That said, LPG may attract road tax for road pumps - but what about Marina fuel pontoons?

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[BarryH]

Re: Just typical!

Good question. Is there a way to indicate wether the fuel was designated a lower duty than road fuel, as in the case of diesel. Or are the marine operaters forced to buy in fuel from their suppliers at the duty paid road fuel rate. What you paying per litre for yours. Road fuel lpg is selling for 34ppl.

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[MedDreamer]

Get Real

I admire everyones optimism about the future policy for taxation on LPG and diesel but I feel it may be a little misplaced.

The working middle classes with surplus disposable income are the primary target for this government - I would think this would broadly encompass all of us on here. As the Labour party drifts leftwards back to its traditional roots (particuarly Gordon Brown) then they will look to squeeze us even more ("Until the pips squeek" to quote Denis Healy)

They also keep touting the "Polluter must pay" line - pretending that their only motivation for excess taxation on fossil fuels is to save the planet.

Taking these two factors into account I think the leisure cruiser market is bang in their sights. Exemptions will continue for fishing and commercial vessels (and farming of course) but 25p per litre for the G&T stinkpot type is not a good long term bet - lets face we hardly represent a political lobby and are not likely to influence many marginal seats at the next election.

Martyn


<hr width=100% size=1>Do you think a Fleming 55 would look out of place on Windermere?

 

[Kevin]

I to have been considering converting my Range Rover to lpg but new that the duty was only set until 2004 and to me it seems blindingly obvious that they are going to wait until enough people have spent out to use the stuff then increase it. my guess its going to finally get up to about 55 p a litre.

So I have decided to save 1500 quid on not converting my car plus all the bad installations and problems it can cause and has caused in Range Rover circles it just isnt worth the aggro.

my boat well Ive worked out that although i can get my lpg convertion done for cost price it still going to be about 3500 for twin engines and although i use my boat a fair bit its not going to actually improve my lot a great deal and Im damned if im going to be drawn into another scam that the government set up, whereby i spend this money out for them to hike up the price.

IMHO Petrol duty etc has nothing whatsoever to do with enviromental issues whatever those lying b*****ds may say im not sure who they think they are fooling by saying it is!

and before this post gets axed thats BOLLARDS.

Kevin

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[rickp]

Re: Get Real

Is it just me, or do others find it ironic that the new white paper (<A target="_blank" HREF=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3322277.stm>BBC report</A>) suggests charging more for driving to the airport 'to curb car pollution' yet they won't tax aviation fuel?

'The polluter pays' as long as its not the airlines, I guess.

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[Duster]

Can/do they put dye in LPG ?, for marine use "heating LPG " would be legal at the moment ,as is red diesel. For road use this would not be legal (but I know it is done), just not sure if it is detectable unless they catch you with the car coupled to the house LPG tank.
Regards mikej

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[Dave_Snelson]

Re: Just typical!

I'm paying 32p per litre, 'cos all marina's are robbin' b*stards any wany. The local garage that does LPG charges the same and they reckon that Calor don't pay the duty on the marina stuff - which is my point (hopefully!).

I'll do some research into fillers. Boat LPG fillers are Todo 4 type, I don't know what car fillers are?? Anyone else know??

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[Dave_Snelson]

Re: Get Real

Oh dear - I do fear that you are right

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[Dave1258]

Re: Just typical!

A mate of mine lives out in the sticks, he's got a ruddy great LPG tank at the rear of his property right.
He also owns a winnebago (7ltr) american motorhome he has gas delivered to his house via the tanker, and fills the winnie at the same time as his domestic tank but enjoying a cheaper rate! therefore a tanker filler is the same as a pump filler is the same as a car filler, even if you are abroad they have adapters to fit whatever type of attachment to gas tank req'd.
Regards Dave






<hr width=100% size=1>If you don't make mistakes, you aren't really trying.

 

[BarryH]

Re: Just typical!

I've got two fillers with the RR gas kit. One is a bayonet fitting and one a screwthread fitting. Same with my bros one. Seems that the most common forecourt fitting is the bayonet thing with the lever operated clamp thing. All very space age when you fill up with all the his and vapour when you disconnect it!

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[OzGirl]

I'm still in regular contact with a friend who works in the Policy Division of the relevant Govt Department who assures me that the threatened price (duty/tax) hike on road use LPG IS going to happen and probably over the next 2/3 year timescale mentioned here. Boat LPG similarly affected. BUT WAIT - red diesel for pleasure boaters will also go, in the same timescales, and discussions are already being held on implementation details with the other 2(?) EU countries affected.
Practical difficulties previously presented as near insuperable by interested parties can apparently be easily (ie cheaply - in political terms) overcome. Princess Tone will lay down on this one, demonstrating he really is at the heart of Europe, while the volume of protest will be something less audible than a mouse's sigh.

BTW LPG in OZ is currently the equivalent of 16p/litre

G'day Folks

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[Andrew_Fanner]

Well then, New Year's Resolution is to promise to vote the sods out whenever possible.

<hr width=100% size=1>Two beers please, my friend is paying.

 

[Kevin]

Re: Just typical!

Round my way at the car pumps LPG is 37.5 a litre but if you go to the local calor gas supplier just down the road he only charges 27p so discrepancy somewhere.

What annoys me about this whole issue is that duty increase is supposedly aimed at protecting the enviroment but if that is so why when people develop alternatives at 'home', as has been done using stuff like pig sh*te that is proven not to be too detrimental to the enviroment the government still smacks on its huge duty taking it up to 37-40p a litre! The same with hydrogen engines, they produce only steam out of the exhaust, so im lead to believe, but i bet once or if they are installed into cars the duty to will be huge putting the price up into petrol levels. Im sure if i could make a fuel for my car out of my own urine with the only emitted exhaust fumes being a hint of lavender it would still be taxed to these high levels.

Lets face it I see the duty on petrol, diesel and lpg as nothing more than a road tax.

Kevin