Gaff vs lug (balanced vs standing...)

[Sea Change]

We arrived to Caribbean a bit over a week ago (we've talked on the B&B forum).

So far sailed the Spindrift only once while here. It's been quite windy, and the one time it rained so hard we had over 10cm of water on the bottom. Lots of rowing around, though. And we borrowed a 5hp outboard to try. That was fun, but maybe a bit too much fun. We'll look for a smaller one.
View attachment 188912

Ah yes I remember following your build now.
We've only ever used a 3.5hp on the Spindrift. I don't feel comfortable trying to push a nesting dinghy up on to the plane. I did recently meet a family with an 11N and they were using an 8hp! Maybe I'm just being over cautious.

 

[bergie]

We've only ever used a 3.5hp on the Spindrift. I don't feel comfortable trying to push a nesting dinghy up on to the plane. I did recently meet a family with an 11N and they were using an 8hp! Maybe I'm just being over cautious.

Well, B&B gives 2.5 as the "max HP" for our 9N.
We don't really need to go fast, but it could be nice to have an outboard as an alternative for the longer distances here. Or then we just need to get comfortable with sailing the dinghy also in less protected waters...

 

[Refueler]

Dipping Lug ??

 

[Sea Change]

Dipping Lug ??

The mast is too far forward for that to work well, or to be necessary.

 

[Sea Change]

Well, B&B gives 2.5 as the "max HP" for our 9N.
We don't really need to go fast, but it could be nice to have an outboard as an alternative for the longer distances here. Or then we just need to get comfortable with sailing the dinghy also in less protected waters...

I've used a trolling motor with my 11N and it would happily trundle along at ~4.5kt, in near silence.
These days you would likely pick up a motor plus suitable lithium battery for less than a brand new petrol outboard. The tricky bit is finding waterproof connectors rated for the current. I just used leads with eye terminals and attached them to the studs on the battery, but they inevitable became corroded and I had to keep shortening the leads.

We've found that the Spindrift rows and sails so well that unless we're in a hurry we don't bother with the motor at all.

 

[Refueler]

The mast is too far forward for that to work well, or to be necessary.

Was just having a 'poke' ............

I'm a Certifcated Ships Lifeboat Cox'n ..... on Dipping and Standing Lug .. as well as motor.

 

[Sea Change]

Was just having a 'poke' ............

I'm a Certifcated Ships Lifeboat Cox'n ..... on Dipping and Standing Lug .. as well as motor.

I know dipping lugs pretty well. Learned to sail on them. Excellent rig for certain purposes, but single-handed sailing around a tight anchorage where you might be tacking every few seconds is perhaps not one of them.

 

[Muddy32]

We had large dipping lug cutters at Moray Outward Bound Sea School, 8 boys to row or act as proper crew when out sailing. It was more a reason to promote team building than efficient sailing.

 

[bergie]

We've found that the Spindrift rows and sails so well that unless we're in a hurry we don't bother with the motor at all.

I assume that security is an additional benefit, as most dinghy theft is for the outboard. At least so far we haven't locked the dinghy, we just take the oar locks away.


Rowing works indeed well, though I've found it is quite hard to make progress upwind when it's over 20kt, as it has been here much of the time. That's when an outboard could be quite welcome

 

[Sea Change]

I assume that security is an additional benefit, as most dinghy theft is for the outboard. At least so far we haven't locked the dinghy, we just take the oar locks away.
View attachment 188946

Rowing works indeed well, though I've found it is quite hard to make progress upwind when it's over 20kt, as it has been here much of the time. That's when an outboard could be quite welcome

We do generally lock up just because it would be heartbreaking to lose the dinghy having put all that effort in to building it. It's not like you can just go and buy another one!
But yes it's nice to think we must be very low on the list for potential thieves.
The only time we've had any trouble was actually in Europe, once where we returned to the beached dinghy to find it full of kids (and sand). No damage done although they were having a right go trying to extract the oars from where they were clamped and locked in place. The other time was again with it beached when a succession of scantily clad Instagram types decided it made a nice prop and perched themselves on the gunwales whilst taking photos of each other. I thought it would be rude to chase them away, they looked happy...

 

[bergie]

The other time was again with it beached when a succession of scantily clad Instagram types decided it made a nice prop and perched themselves on the gunwales whilst taking photos of each other. I thought it would be rude to chase them away, they looked happy...

That happened to us as well in St. Ninian's, Shetland. Though for a varying definition of "scantily clad"...

Question, though: where do you attach the lock on the dinghy side?

 

[Sea Change]

That happened to us as well in St. Ninian's, Shetland. Though for a varying definition of "scantily clad"...

I think the Shetland version of 'scantly clad' means you've taken off the duffle coat and there's only another six layers to go.

Question, though: where do you attach the lock on the dinghy side?

Easiest is generally to loop the cable through the mast hole. But I also have davit eyes on the floor which make good attachment points for all sorts of things (I usually tie the anchor on here too)

I described the oar securing arrangement on the other forum:
2 years later- Spindrift as a tender

 

[Sea Change]

Follow-up question.
I've been messing about with this rig in stronger winds, and putting on more halyard/downhaul tension to get the creases out of the sail.
The mast is pretty bendy. It's a four part mast designed for a sleeved sail, but I'm using the bottom three sections only, with all the load going through a block lashed near the top. It's definitely bending a lot more in this configuration than it used to with the windsurf sail on it! I presume the sleeved luff was helping too support it.

Should I be worried about this? I believe it's a carbon/grp blend. Bending is fine but I don't want to snap it.

 

[Marleyboneraindrop]

Hello Sea Change
A very interesting thread, thank you.
I'm looking at converting my 12ft dinghy to a Standing Lug (like Roger Barnes)
Are you local to the South by any chance?
Vernon

 

[Sea Change]

Hello Sea Change
A very interesting thread, thank you.
I'm looking at converting my 12ft dinghy to a Standing Lug (like Roger Barnes)
Are you local to the South by any chance?
Vernon

I'm not sure which south you're meaning but assuming England, sorry no I'm based on the Isle of Skye. Currently away on a multi year liveaboard adventure. In the Bahamas just now.
My lug rig conversion was literally lashed together in an afternoon, and then gradually tweaked to make it easier to set up. I'm really pleased with it, I'm using it almost every day.

 

[Marleyboneraindrop]

Ah okay....yes it was the Solent.
Your in a beautiful part of the World!

 

[Sea Change]

Just to update on this project, I've added two travellers, one for the halyard and one for the downhaul. Both are just simple sliced loops made from unsheathed braided rope. Each one includes a snap hook.
So to set up, I now just pull the rolled up sail/yard out of its bag (a simple sock shaped thing I made from old sailcloth), and clip on the halyard and downhaul, then hoist and go. No knots, no shackles. I leave the sheet attached. The whole thing literally takes a few seconds.
I've also found the sail bag is handy when packing up the boat for a longer period of time, as the mast sections fit inside it. So now the entire rig just goes in one bag.
It's little things like this that make using a small boat easier, and therefore makes it more likely that you will actually go sailing.

We've now managed to get the whole assembly and break down of the nesting dinghy down to a well practised routine, that takes about half an hour each way including rig set up. The other day for the first time we went from fully stowed on deck to in the water, went for a sail, and then back on deck again that evening. In the past it's felt like such a big task that we wouldn't have dreamt of assembling the dinghy for one day trip.

 

[bergie]

Inspired by your comments, we also have a standing lug rig for our Spindrift. The mast and yard are carbon spars we got from the local windsurfing school, and the sail is cut from an old jib, so the only thing we had to buy was the nylon discs for adapting the mast to the step.

Doesn't point quite as high as the old Europe rig, but is much quicker to set up. And the lack of boom makes this so much easier to sail with two on board,

Here's the cut plan for the sail. Center is just a tad more forward than with the old rig.

We also added a brailing line, so you can pull a single line to bunch the sail against the mast for shorter stops.

 

[Sea Change]

That looks great. Are you in the ABCs somewhere?
Your sail is much higher aspect ratio than mine, so it might perform better.
The old gaff sail I was given is only 4.3m² is the 6.04m² that the boat is designed for. It's not much of a problem unless all three of us are aboard, when the lack of power is really noticeable.
I'm toying with adding a panel along the bottom to extend the sail upwards. But it's not a huge priority just now.

 

[bergie]

That looks great. Are you in the ABCs somewhere?

Yup, we're in Spanish Water, Curaçao. Windy and dry, which has made life both easier and more difficult. Dry was definitely good when we built the new hard dodger in June-July. But then we had epoxy flying everywhere.

Your sail is much higher aspect ratio than mine, so it might perform better.
The old gaff sail I was given is only 4.3m² is the 6.04m² that the boat is designed for. It's not much of a problem unless all three of us are aboard, when the lack of power is really noticeable.

We used this book for planning the sail cut:


So far happy with how it sails. We added a reef where we remove the bottom 1m of the sail. That was pretty nice in gusts up to 20kn.