G3/G4 and WIFI access point in one box ?

[BartW]

Bart

i have the micro model fitted to a 2012 Fairline Squadron 58.

due to Moodynick setting up the marina Wi-Fi it is super fast and stable.

Andrew

I've picked up this thread, just to thank Andrew for the link !
as I'm about to order the "mini" model from Yachtrouter, + the extension for a second sim card,

the Yachtrouter CTO was very knowladgeable and gave clear explanations at Metz
the unit allows me, (important to me):
-to insert two sim cards for different Phone networks in Croatia and Montenegro, (or for more bandwidth if needed)
-two separate wifi networks on the boat, crew and guests, and make sure the guests can't drain my sim card too quick, (or a separate sim card for the guests)
-I can connect the 2 boat wifi networks to the Porte Montenegro wifi network, which is now very good (several antenna's on every quay), and foc
or to local good quality hotspots, there are some good ones in Croatia !
-It has plenty of LAN connections for onboard IT equipment; printer, HD, Sonos, ...
-Yachtrouter have a cloud service (300 ...400euro /year) that enables me to have a VPN connection, fe onboard camera network, and make that permanently visable on the net

these units are designed to do all this on a boat !
I'll report back about good or bad experiences

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Great info from everyone (thanks!)

FWIW I'm also in the process of installing a new router on the boat. Asus RT-N66U which I'm told is very good indeed, and my son is setting it up for me this week (or already has done). I'll report back. I'm thinking it maybe does wifi in the way BartW is seeking, but I'm not sure. Otherwise it seems very good- 3or4G phone via a plugged in dongle, 4 LAN ports, and 2 USB ports so as well as the 4G dongle you can easily keep all your boat files and photos on a USM memory device plugged into the unit. It is 2.4+5Ghz radio so is superfast I think. Though anyone feel free to correct me!

If I get the time I'll go to the Orange shop this weekend and see what contract I can get for a 4G dongle. I'd like to get nearly unlimited monthly data. I'll report back

It's a very good router indeed - not the absolute fastest out there but it's got a very good range and is good at coping with walls and things. I have one at home replacing a Cisco device which had been lab-tested as faster but wasn't in practice when a few walls were put in the way. It's also incredibly easy to set up so don't let your son con you into thinking he's a whizz because he set it up successfully

Don't forget to make sure all your clients are 8.011n as well. I would think you'd be fine at 5GHz throughout the boat unless you're the wrong side of the engines or tanks.

Incidentally, whilst it will failover from the RJ-45 WAN input ) to the USB modem, there's a known issue with it failing back. If you're only using a dongle for WAN access that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[alt]

This may not apply to you guys at sea, who will most likely have LOS with your nearest 3/4G antenna, BUT, for me it was very important that I could install an external telecom antenna ie. to connect to my 3/4G service provider. Where I require a connection, there are many trees / mountains in the way of the nearest service provider antenna. I found the external antenna made a big difference.

Again, may not apply to you guys but it's something to take into consideration. Having an omni-directional antenna outside will certainly help

 

[Groot T]

Hi Bart,

The way that I look at it, is the more services you have integrated into one box, the more and more expensive the unit becomes.
My logic would be to try and achieve the following setup;
BA WiFi
Connection to 3G/4G Router. http://uk.tp-link.com/products/details/?model=TL-MR3040 + http://www.huawei.com/ecommunity/bbs/10175059.html, for example.
Another device which will sniff-out the local marina WiFi & offer up a connection to your onboard WiFi.

I see JFM has found a nice piece of kit from CISCO, though it only offers 3G. But then again, I have 3G devices which are running at 4G speeds. So would be interesting to find out if the CISCO does that.

Will ask the tech guys in the office today and see if they can recommend a WiFi sniffer which will do the trick.

Will get back to you today.

Toby

 

[rlw]

Late joining this thread but this summer I made a setup using a ubiquity bullet as a long distance client with an omnidirectional external arial coupled to the wan port of an Alfa R36 router (which is really cheap). The setup works but like jmf I find that whilst I can connect to a lot more networks the bandwith is often very low tot the point it somtimes only works at night. The Alfa allows you to failover to 3G if the wireless does not work. Have not had the chance to set this up yet. The whole setup was approx 150 €.

The downside is that if you need connect to a new wireless network you need to log on the console of the bullet and so you need to understand IP adressing. This can be a bit cumbersome. I think the yachtrouter allows you to do this via an ap which is an advantage.

Rlw

 

[alt]

Late joining this thread but this summer I made a setup using a ubiquity bullet as a long distance client with an omnidirectional external arial coupled to the wan port of an Alfa R36 router (which is really cheap). The setup works but like jmf I find that whilst I can connect to a lot more networks the bandwith is often very low tot the point it somtimes only works at night. The Alfa allows you to failover to 3G if the wireless does not work. Have not had the chance to set this up yet. The whole setup was approx 150 €.

The downside is that if you need connect to a new wireless network you need to log on the console of the bullet and so you need to understand IP adressing. This can be a bit cumbersome. I think the yachtrouter allows you to do this via an ap which is an advantage.

Rlw

Don't think Bart will have any issues with basic IP topology understanding, the guy is a damn genius!

 

[BartW]

Don't think Bart will have any issues with basic IP topology understanding, the guy is a damn genius!

thanks Alt for the compliment but I have to deny, for this IP stuff, I feel very ignorant,
luckyly I have many good friends (and collegues) who can help me out ;-)

about the sugestions posted above, setting up several cheap boxes, and spending much un-interesting setting up time, and re-setting up time (and curse)
that's exactly what I don't want anymore. been there done that,

the yachtrouter can do exactly what I need, and their support seems made for purpose,
lets hope it all works out

 

[annageek]

I have just had a quick look through this thread, as by pure chance, I have been involved with a project at work that deals with remote WiFi / 3G / 4G access, and uses some interesting devices to help achieve this.

From the thread, the main themes seem to be:

- Poor marina/shore based WiFi service forcing the use of cellular networks
- Marina/Shore WiFi Range issues
- Marina WiFi Capacity issues
- Desire to have everything dealt with in one box for reliable operation

The yachtrouter devices seem pretty good, and clearly suited to the task. It may be worth looking at the Peplink MAX HD series of routers (http://www.peplink.com/products/max-cellular-router/pepwave-max-hd-series-specs/). They seem to be about the same price point as the Yachtrouter offerings - possibly a little more competitive. Furthermore, they offer some advantages (but also some disadvantages) when compared with the various Yachtrouters.

To me, the biggest advantage is that they can connect to multiple cellular and WiFi APs simultaneously, AND route your data streams over all available bandwidth. It's a step up from a simple failover setup (which I think is what the yachtrouters do?).

Just a thought!

 

[MapisM]

they can connect to multiple cellular and WiFi APs simultaneously, AND route your data streams over all available bandwidth.

Do you mean that they can take multiple SIMs (how many?), and use them in parallel, possibly together with also the marina (or any other) WiFi hotspot?
That sounds interesting.
It's also possible to set some order of preference, and limit the usage of each connection, I suppose?

 

[BartW]

Do you mean that they can take multiple SIMs (how many?), and use them in parallel, possibly together with also the marina (or any other) WiFi hotspot?
That sounds interesting.
It's also possible to set some order of preference, and limit the usage of each connection, I suppose?

the yachtrouter can have multiple sims,
you can use them separately, and choose the one that has the best coverage, or has the cheapest rate in that zone, or switch between netwroks in different country's as in my usage,
OR
you can combine multiple sims to have more bandwidth,

the selection between the possible networks is done manually on a very simple userinterface fe on a Iphone or Ipad,
yachtrouter tried different methods of automatic switching, but these alway's created more disadvantages then advantages (unwanted switching during data streams, etc..)
this automatic network switching is not available on the small units, but still available in the bigger pro versions

 

[Robg71]

Hi Bart
Just having multiple sims and connections may not be the same as having one ultra fast connection. Link/Line aggregation is probably not supported. What you may find you have is 2 or 3 connections times whatever speed they run at. not the same as one line running at that speed. for example, if your trying to download a document, it will not combine the multiple connections for a faster transfer rate, it will merely use only one of the available ports... possibly in a failover or load balance/load sharing policy

Line aggregation requires various hardware at both ends of your connection.
I tried with two ADSL connections in my home.... unsuccessfully... The two 1meg connections I had are not the same as a true 2m connection...
Hope thats not confused things...

(Thankfully British Telecom have now installed Fibre in my area... so its all redundant. But, I did look at 4g for home use, and it was a serious contender...

 

[BartW]

Hi Bart
Just having multiple sims and connections may not be the same as having one ultra fast connection. Link/Line aggregation is probably not supported. What you may find you have is 2 or 3 connections times whatever speed they run at. not the same as one line running at that speed. for example, if your trying to download a document, it will not combine the multiple connections for a faster transfer rate, it will merely use only one of the available ports... possibly in a failover or load balance/load sharing policy

.

Rob, I'm sure yachtrouter can do "Bonding"; combining multiple cards to have a bigger bandwith for bigger data streams such as Video...
they specifically explained that to me, (but I'm not sure that I'll neeed that on holiday )

we have similar equipment for that in my Industry, which we install in Radio OB vans, but optimised for typical Broadcast usage,
don't asc me more details about this, we have a specialist in the company, I know a little about very much, but very much about very little ;-)

 

[Robg71]

Rob, I'm sure yachtrouter can do "Bonding"; combining multiple cards to have a bigger bandwith for bigger data streams such as Video...
they specifically explained that to me, (but I'm not sure that I'll neeed that on holiday )

we have similar equipment for that in my Industry, which we install in Radio OB vans, but optimised for typical Broadcast usage,
don't asc me more details about this, we have a specialist in the company, I know a little about very much, but very much about very little ;-)

Thats an impressive piece of kit then... I missed that on the spec, but I believe they have just released a new version at METS. I didn't speak to them this year, as had already decided they were the way I was going.

Love the last line, I must remember that

 

[BartW]

Thats an impressive piece of kit then... I missed that on the spec, but I believe they have just released a new version at METS.

the line of products is more or less the same, but they are now in their 4th generation.
one difference is that the small series can have additional sim card extensions,
that was only possible on the pro range in the past.

 

[JSYmartini]

Thanks again to annageek for pointing me towards this thread.

I've been looking at the Yacht Router range for a little while after a mention from Robg71.
Interesting to note that the recently updated price list on their website has the Micro model at around £700, I'm sure it was over £1000 last time I looked.

There's been a couple of mentions of using more than one sim card with the Yacht Router, particularly by BartW. Is it the "mobile expander" accessory that allows this? I noticed in the specs that the micro and mini only have one card slot.

According to the price list, the mobile expander is almost as much as the Micro unit itself. Could you not save yourself a lot of money and swap the sim card over when you want to change network?

At the moment, I'm getting myself set up for charter work, specifically doing escort duties for long distance/open water swimming attempts, much the same as the guys in the Dover Strait. Operating around the Channel Islands, I'll be at sea for typically 12 hours. During this time, the support crew onboard that come with the swimmer are always keen to continually update friends and family via texts, Facebook, twitter etc, uploading photos and the like.

So the ability to swap between a french sim card and a Jersey/Guernsey/UK one is quite important given the sea area.

The less messing around with set up menus etc whilst I'm trying not to run over the swimmer is also quite important!

 

[BartW]

There's been a couple of mentions of using more than one sim card with the Yacht Router, particularly by BartW. Is it the "mobile expander" accessory that allows this? I noticed in the specs that the micro and mini only have one card slot.

According to the price list, the mobile expander is almost as much as the Micro unit itself. Could you not save yourself a lot of money and swap the sim card over when you want to change network?

the micro and mini units can only have one simcard, so thats why I've ordered the mobile expander, (one extra sim card slot)
yes that's fairly expensive, but last year, with the 3th generation (no its 4th generation) of the products it was not even possible to add a expansion to the micro or mini model, you immediately needed "the stadard" from the pro range.

ofcause its possible to swap simcards,
but last year, with a simpler unit, I had so much hassle with changing from Montenegro to Croatia network, that I've bite the bullet.
the fysical changing of the card is not a big deal, but it all ads up, ... to the frustration and cursing ;-)

with the yachtrouter units, after installation, network switching is very easy from a PC, Ipad, or Iphone (as they've demo'ed to me at Mets), simpel user Interface.
and I can count on local factory support in my area (company is in Croatia)

the units have been delivered to me a week ago, (Mini + mobile expansion)
have to setup and test, now only on good local Wifi,
I'll post my findings (probably not before summer sailing nor passing border again)

 

[JSYmartini]

Thanks for that, when you swap the sim cards over, do you have to go into the set up and reconfigure anything? You say you had hassle changing network...

Also can you tell me if the unit remembers your preferred wifi network? So every time you arrive back at your home port, switch over to wifi from 3G and it will automatically log on to your usual wifi network?

 

[BartW]

Thanks for that, when you swap the sim cards over, do you have to go into the set up and reconfigure anything? You say you had hassle changing network...

Also can you tell me if the unit remembers your preferred wifi network? So every time you arrive back at your home port, switch over to wifi from 3G and it will automatically log on to your usual wifi network?

I used to work with a Vololink VA100. this unit can't connect to marine Wifi, that was my main reason for the change,
nothing on this unit swithches automatically, but it had a few programmeable preset network settings
you alway's had to connect a PC and change settings.

other issue's were:
you could not easyly see the remaining volume on your card,
we never knew if the data ran out, or if the connection failed due to another reason.
you get sms messages, but as the card is NOT in a Phone, you can't read them.

for recharging the Croatian card, we had to put it in a old style / big simcard mobile Phone, and sms the new code, ...

the recharging in Montenegro could be done online, but then you need internet at the first place !
and the data recharge webpage was not good at all, not even for the lady in the local shop
and the data network there was very poor, everywhere.

these are all network issues, not Router issues, I know.

but for the Yachtrouter units,
they DON't switch authomatically between networks, nor to Wifi, I have been told.
they used to in the past, but that was more problematic the engineer explained to me, (unwanted switching at unwanted moments)
but the network selection screen is VERY user friendly
It will remember preferred wifi networks iirc

 

[JSYmartini]

Sounds like you had a lot of fun there!

So far I haven't found anything that suggests the Yacht Router Micro is not the unit for me. Perhaps I'll buy this and see how I get on. Maybe add the mobile expander at a later date if I'm not happy with changing the sim card over.

I may even be able to get a sim package that will allow roaming at a reasonable cost, then I will only need one card. Another thing I should investigate first.

 

[Keith-i]

I thought you already had a boatwifi aerial? Would it not just be a matter of getting a decent router that can use this as it's primary WAN feed and then all you need is a 3g/4g modem as secondary feed for the offshore bits? I'm guessing a 3g modem with decent aerial can't be too hard to find or expensive. Failing that just set your phone as an AP.