Furling line replacement

[MJWB]

I've read various threads around furling lines, including one I started about 4 years ago but not found an answer to where I am now.
Currently have 8mm line, though the drum is very full once all genoa is out. Jimmy Green article seems to recommend 6mm which plainly would not fill the drum as much.
8mm okay to handle for me (reckon 6mm will not be comfortable).
A Rotostay furler. The current furling line at 8mm appears too thick to fit through the holes in the furler drum and so whoever replaced the line last time has stripped away some of the outer, whipped it and just threaded through suffucient of the core to then be made fast as needed to the drum. A compromise to get comfort in handling perhaps.
My question is this. Any thoughts on how much this compromises the strength of the furling line?

 

[LittleSister]

I've read various threads around furling lines, including one I started about 4 years ago but not found an answer to where I am now.
Currently have 8mm line, though the drum is very full once all genoa is out. Jimmy Green article seems to recommend 6mm which plainly would not fill the drum as much.
8mm okay to handle for me (reckon 6mm will not be comfortable).
A Rotostay furler. The current furling line at 8mm appears too thick to fit through the holes in the furler drum and so whoever replaced the line last time has stripped away some of the outer, whipped it and just threaded through suffucient of the core to then be made fast as needed to the drum. A compromise to get comfort in handling perhaps.
My question is this. Any thoughts on how much this compromises the strength of the furling line?

Another potential way to skin that particular cat that I've contemplated, but not yet actually tried, is to splice a long 8mm tail for handling on just enough 6mm line (plus a bit to be sure) to fully furl the sail.

I don't know the answer to your reduced strength question, but will the stripped core cope as well with abrasion?

 

[Boathook]

I took some of the core out of my 8mm furling line so that it fits better as instructed by a sailmaker. When the sail is fully furled the flat section is nearly back to the cockpit. Over the years I haven't noticed any different wear on the section with no core compared to the cored section.

I would not like to handle the sail with anything smaller than 8mm even though 6mm has the strength.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

My own experience is that you should use line with the diameter specified by the maker of the furler. Thinner and you get riding turns, thicker and you can't get enough line on the drum. It's 6mm for mine, from memory. But the furler's manual will specify the diameter of the line.

 

[LittleSister]

My own experience is that you should use line with the diameter specified by the maker of the furler. Thinner and you get riding turns, thicker and you can't get enough line on the drum. It's 6mm for mine, from memory. But the furler's manual will specify the diameter of the line.

But that doesn't preclude using a 8mm (or whatever) tail for easier handling that doesn't reach the drum.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

But that doesn't preclude using a 8mm (or whatever) tail for easier handling that doesn't reach the drum.

True. I have no need for that - I have plenty of winches if the line is too hard to pull in by hand (she was originally owned by serious racers!) but I can see that a larger diameter tail might be useful for ease of handling. I might be worried about the strength of a splice joining ropes of different diameters, though.

 

[Charlie68]

I currently use 6mm line, it’s not too bad on the hands. I’m thinking of 8mm line with core removed for the drum-bit, and the outer bit run longways through the sewing machine, turning the coreless bit into flat webbing for the drum.

 

[mikegunn]

I've read various threads around furling lines, including one I started about 4 years ago but not found an answer to where I am now.
Currently have 8mm line, though the drum is very full once all genoa is out. Jimmy Green article seems to recommend 6mm which plainly would not fill the drum as much.
8mm okay to handle for me (reckon 6mm will not be comfortable).
A Rotostay furler. The current furling line at 8mm appears too thick to fit through the holes in the furler drum and so whoever replaced the line last time has stripped away some of the outer, whipped it and just threaded through suffucient of the core to then be made fast as needed to the drum. A compromise to get comfort in handling perhaps.
My question is this. Any thoughts on how much this compromises the strength of the furling line?

On a previous boat I had “Hood” furling gear. Their instructions on preparing the furling line were so effective that I’ve adopted their recommendations ever since, including the use of 8mm braid on braid. So much kinder to the hands.
Furl the headsail, including a couple of wraps of its sheets, having previously determined the length of furling line.
Tie off the furling drum to prevent it from rotating and the sail unfurling.
Make a note of which direction the furling line feeds around the drum.
Remove the furling line.
Mark the line’s cover, approximately 1/3 of its total length from the “drum” end.
Tie a stop-knot in the line on the 2/3 side of the mark. This’ll help maintaining n the relationship between the inner and outer braids.
Cut off any heat sealing which is combining the inner and outer braids at the line’s “drum” end.
Using a small screwdriver carefully open up the outer braid at the 1/3 mark and tease out a small loop of inner braid braid.
Continue to extract the inner core from the 1/3 end of the line.
Cut off the removed inner braid where it exits the cover. Don’t bin it! It’s a useful bit of line that could find another life.
Bury the stub of inner braid back into the outer braid by rolling between palms of hands.
Heat seal drum end of furling line.
Referring to the earlier note of direction of line feed, put two turns around drum before feeding line through its anchoring hole. It may be necessary to use a double overhand or figure of eight knot to prevent line pulling back through.
Cleat off working end of furling line and untie previously applied drum tie-off.
That’s it! Give it a try.
One big advantage of the foregoing is that the first third of the line going around the drum will lie flat, ensuring that there will be little chance of a collapse and ensuing jam occurring. It also leaves more than adequate space for turns of the line around the drum.
Mike

 

[lustyd]

I took some of the core out of my 8mm furling line so that it fits better as instructed by a sailmaker. When the sail is fully furled the flat section is nearly back to the cockpit. Over the years I haven't noticed any different wear on the section with no core compared to the cored section.

I would not like to handle the sail with anything smaller than 8mm even though 6mm has the strength.

It's not clear which end you removed the core from. I assume the drum end as you need less strength the more furled it is?

 

[thinwater]

It's not clear which end you removed the core from. I assume the drum end as you need less strength the more furled it is?

Yes. And you can also do it by degrees, removing only as much as you need. Open the braid, pull out the core and taper, and milk it back in (obviously you pull a little extra by bunching up the rope so that you can bury the taper). Add a few stitches to keep the transition from moving.

I've been doing this across several boats for 30 years. Common practice.

If strength is a problem while furling, you are doing it wrong. On any boat up to about 35 feet this is done by hand. If you are worried about strength when partially reefed, don't remove that much core. But in practice this has not proven to be a problem. The problem is always chafe. Fix the chafe.

 

[LittleSister]

And then there's the Sailspar roller/reefing system (sadly no longer in production) which doesn't wind the line onto the drum at all. The line (about 10 or 12mm?) is a continuous loop to the cockpit and back, which feeds through rollers just short of once round the outside of a (covered) shallow drum at the bottom of the foil to positively turn the foil in either direction, depending on which side of the loop you pull from the cockpit. No surplus line at the cockpit to stow when the sail's reefed, either.

 

[Tranona]

And then there's the Sailspar roller/reefing system (sadly no longer in production) which doesn't wind the line onto the drum at all. The line (about 10 or 12mm?) is a continuous loop to the cockpit and back, which feeds through rollers just short of once round the outside of a (covered) shallow drum at the bottom of the foil to positively turn the foil in either direction, depending on which side of the loop you pull from the cockpit. No surplus line at the cockpit to stow when the sail's reefed, either.

Sailspar seems still to be in business I had a quote from them only a couple of months ago.

 

[LittleSister]

Sailspar seems still to be in business I had a quote from them only a couple of months ago.

The firm are still in business (and very helpful they are, too), but I believe they are not now (or weren't a couple of years ago) advertising and manufacturing their roller-reefing gear. They do have, or can make, parts for it, though, and have manuals etc. for it on their website, alongside focusing on other work and products.

 

[Boathook]

It's not clear which end you removed the core from. I assume the drum end as you need less strength the more furled it is?

Drum end.

 

[jaminb]

I went from 8mm to 6mm after the 8mm wore through and snapped. The 6mm is so much easier to furl this offsets any potential hand pain

 

[Dulcinea East]

I just replaced 20 years old 8mm for modern 6mm because we had issues with riding turns (last one required complete drum disassembly). At the same time we checked the positions of all the blocks (one was too high so angle was wrong) and installed a ratchet block near the stopper to help with control. So far so good.

 

[PetiteFleur]

I use 8mm braided on my Rotostay, but as mentioned can get tight when fully furled. Tried a 7m but was too soft so went back to 8mm. I also fitted a Ĺewmar clutch which holds the line before taking another pull.

 

[Neeves]

We used 6mm dyneema braid on the drum and spliced it to a 8mm polyester braid on braid tail.

We had problems with turns falling off the drum. As we went over big swells the drum would part rotate along the last turn to slacken and fall off the drum The sail would luff and fill. This would go unnoticed until you needed to furl and the furore jammed.

To solve the issue we took bungy from the tail of the 8mm polyester round a turning block at the transom and then forward up the deck. It was installed to be just taut when the sail was unfurled - being taut the line on the drum was never slack. It did not impact handling the tail as it was bungy and easy to stretch.

Jonathan

 

[dunedin]

I took some of the core out of my 8mm furling line so that it fits better as instructed by a sailmaker. When the sail is fully furled the flat section is nearly back to the cockpit. Over the years I haven't noticed any different wear on the section with no core compared to the cored section.

I would not like to handle the sail with anything smaller than 8mm even though 6mm has the strength.

What is the breaking strain of the outer cover without the core?
Our furling line is 8mm cruising dyneema - with the vast majority of the strength in the core.
But importantly this is in fact a REEFING as well as furling line. Going to windward into 30 knots (or more) breeze, with the jib sheet winched as hard as feasibly possible using both hands, the strain on the furling / reefing line must be enormous. Higher strain than even the 14mm jib sheet. Perhaps the highest loaded running rigging on the boat.
I might consider using a dyneema core only for part of the rope, but never cover only. If it bursts in a strong wind and the jib comes unrolled in 35-40knots then things will be tricky.
NB. The vast majority of cruising boats I see sailing to windward the jib / genoa sheet is too slack in a breeze.

 

[ylop]

In my experience it will be like USB sticks - you will put the line on the drum in one direction (CW or CCW) and then attempt to furl it, decide you made a mistake and reverse it, then realise you were right the first time!