Furler problems - difficult to furl/unfurl

DangerousPirate

DangerousPirate

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So, a couple of days ago I went out the first sail with my new (used) boat and I had a really hard time unfurling (and furling) the headsail. The drum barely moves. Now I had a look at it and couldnt identify the problem, can you give me pointers to find out what it might be?

It doesnt look like its jammed.

Potential ideas are: Too loose forestay, too tight or maybe too loose halyard, or maybe it just needs some sort of lubrication (wd40? Beeswax?)

Thanks in advance.
 
I understand you managed to unfurl it sufficient to go sailing, right?

Is the furling line led properly onto the drum? If it's a poor lead and gets bunched up on the reel, it's like a riding turn.

I would then try the following:
- get your binos out and just check you don't have halyards crossed or twisted aloft. Or go up on the main halyard and have a look.
- ease halyard an inch and try again. Then another inch and try again. If that's still stiff...
- give the furler a nice rinse
- drop and take off the sail. If it's still stiff, I'd be looking to the hardware, but you can at least tell if the top swivel is OK

At this point my knowledge runs out. Look up the type of furler and see if there's any service / lubrication requirement?

Then I'd be calling for someone who knows what they're doing...!
 
DangerousPirate said:
So, a couple of days ago I went out the first sail with my new (used) boat and I had a really hard time unfurling (and furling) the headsail. The drum barely moves. Now I had a look at it and couldnt identify the problem, can you give me pointers to find out what it might be?

It doesnt look like its jammed.

Potential ideas are: Too loose forestay, too tight or maybe too loose halyard, or maybe it just needs some sort of lubrication (wd40? Beeswax?)

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Can you tell by feel if the jamming is down at the drum or at the top swivel? That would be easy to identify trying gently to rotate the drum by hand. I think you should not force rotating anything as this could cause damage.
Do you have a halyard lead? are you sure a halyard wrap didn't occur in this first sail? Being a victim of halyard wrap myself, destroying my forestay, I suggest you check your forestay top with the binoculars!
 
DangerousPirate said:
So, a couple of days ago I went out the first sail with my new (used) boat and I had a really hard time unfurling (and furling) the headsail. The drum barely moves. Now I had a look at it and couldnt identify the problem, can you give me pointers to find out what it might be?

It doesnt look like its jammed.

Potential ideas are: Too loose forestay, too tight or maybe too loose halyard, or maybe it just needs some sort of lubrication (wd40? Beeswax?)

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Can you advise the make and model of your furling gear. They all have their own idiosynchronicities?

Mike
 
Is it a Facnor? If it is, the top swivel will have seized and your efforts will be enthusiastically unstranding your forestay as the halyard wraps. Facnor kit (at least, the kit fitted >10 years ago) is rubbish and the swivel effectively unserviceable. If this is what you have bin the whole caboodle for a furlex system.

if it’s any other make, the description you give still sounds like a top swivel problem, but you can probably service the swivel and sort the problem.

also look at the feed to the drum. If it’s the usual arrangement where the line is run along the stanchions, this a terrible arrangement although it’s the norm. The line is much better run over the cabin top to a conventional clutch.
 
It might be obvious but laying on the deck with Binos whilst tugging at the halyard and or furler line can reveal a lot...

I saw. Youtube recently where the guy cleared his bearings without taking them apart, using carb cleaner and then squirting in PTFE/silicone
 
How old is the boat? It is highly likely the bearings have seized up due to the original grease going hard. You shoukld take the bearings apart and regrease them. I have never tried the method suggested by pandos, but it might be worth trying.
 
I had a similar problem, except my drum would not move at all. I tried a thread here, and got no useful response. I tried the supplier who was equally useless.

The issue was that the forestay was not exactly central on the pin to which it is retained in the drum. There were 2 plastic spacers that were meant to centralise the forestay on the pin. They had worn and the forestay was off centre.

It was all a bit fiddly as the only view of the inside of the drum is from underneath. You need plenty of time, patience and the roller instruction manual. Ideally - decent weather. You need something to measure the forestay location.

It was an easy fix, eventually. Our mast is beefy and has no ability to bend (or not much). I loosened off the plastic spacers. We have an inner forestay, and unstayed headsail with a dyneema halyard and a spinakker halyard. I tightened every thing up, pulling the mast forward, and loosened the topping lift and mainsheet (we don't have a backstay, its a cat - if we had I would have loosened it off). This gave enough slack to the forestay to allow me to centralise it, reposition the plastic spacers and then loosen everything off.

My original thought was that I would need to loosen the forestay which meant accessing the turnbuckle, this proved impossible as the sleeve covering the turnbuckle was secured with a, now corroded, couple of small bolts. I had thought I would need to drill them out. Pulling the mast forward turned out to be the easy route. Why commissioners cannot be bothered to use Duralac is a mystery.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan
 
On my fairly ancient Rotostay furler , the plastic (delrin?) ball bearings on top swivel had worn and many were not spherical any more. Cheap on eBay and easy to install.
 
One thought. I had a problem with a stiff furler and had to really heave to furl in a breeze. I can't remember the cause, but possibly too loose a halliard, Next time the mast came down, the forestay was unravelled making a pretty little cage about an inch long. That cost me a new forestay, so don't force it.
 
The most common cause of a jammed furler is a rising turn on the drum. This is easily controlled by keeping a slight tension on the furlong line when letting it out, too late after the jam has occurred. If you can remove the sail (if it's right out) then it is easier to work the rising turn out of the drum. Another possible cause of stiffness is a recut jib. if it's noticeably "shorter" than the forestay, the Halyard often twists round the stay at the top, rather than allowing the foil to rotate.
 
we suffered this for years, rope getting tangled on drum is common and obvious, but I doubt this is your problem, It was a red herring for us that set us back!!, I second the advice to see if jam is up top or down low, easily done by trying to twist drum by hand, you'll feel where the jam is, a bit like feeling where a trapped door is bolted/jammed by pushing on it! we had the jam up top/halyard wrap issue, confirmed with binoculars!, BUT, it could happen, then spin and free itself, so you might like to crudely bunch your sail up next time it happens and see what state its in when you tie up.
our situation was very simply cured by adding a shackle to the bottom of the sail thus raising it up about 50mm, this crucially increased the angle between the halyard and the pole, this encourages the swivel to turn correctly rather than twist the halyard round the pole, its easy to see if there has been halyard wrap, as the first 30cm above swivel will be worn out somewhat, not just a little section where it passes hardware, but a 'length' where its been wrapped .. easy to lower sail and check bearings/swivel,, of course if its too tight, or too loose it may want to wrap, but the angle between halyard and pole is the most important thing to look at, there are products to increase this angle, but pullling your sail up higher does the same..
 
Topcat47 said:
Another possible cause of stiffness is a recut jib. if it's noticeably "shorter" than the forestay, the Halyard often twists round the stay at the top, rather than allowing the foil to rotate.
Click to expand...
That was my issue, solved it with a short strop at the top which reinstated the correct angle the halyard attached to the top swivel. If the halyard is too close to parallel with the forestay it won't furl nicely
 
Not that often - maybe every third year - my Rotostay starts to tighten up. I have to slide the forestay out and treat it to a long squirt of McLube.
 
Akestor said:
Can you tell by feel if the jamming is down at the drum or at the top swivel? That would be easy to identify trying gently to rotate the drum by hand. I think you should not force rotating anything as this could cause damage.
Do you have a halyard lead? are you sure a halyard wrap didn't occur in this first sail? Being a victim of halyard wrap myself, destroying my forestay, I suggest you check your forestay top with the binoculars!
Click to expand...
Some good points here - Is it possible when you rigged the boat you missed putting the halyard through a lead or diverter which will prevent halyard wrap? Easy to do if you are not familiar with the new boat. What ever you do do not force it as you will damage the wire at the top of the forestay . Definitely worth checking - Don't ask how I found this out!
This link explains the potential problem Halyard wraps
 
coveman said:
Some good points here - Is it possible when you rigged the boat you missed putting the halyard through a lead or diverter which will prevent halyard wrap? Easy to do if you are not familiar with the new boat. What ever you do do not force it as you will damage the wire at the top of the forestay . Definitely worth checking - Don't ask how I found this out!
This link explains the potential problem Halyard wraps
Click to expand...

he’d’ve have to be putting up and rigging up his own mast to miss the halyard diverter though and thats not a normal job for a newbie
 
There are lots of answers. Some are related to the drum at the bottom and some to the swivel at the top. If its one of these then the other should work perfectly. It would be better, to solicit advise, if the OP tried to identify if the problem is the drum or the top swivel. A rope jamb at the drum should be easy to see and if the furling line is 'stuck' somewhere on its run from stern to bow - that should be easy to see. A halyard wrap easy to see. Can you move the drum by hand, at all?

OP - more info would help

Jonathan
 
I think that the likely causes have been covered, and there are many. The thing is to be systematic about diagnosing it. I would start with the halyard tension hand-tight and no more and first check the drum turns freely and that there are no jamming turns on the reel. Then it is a matter of working your way through the rest. A furling sail should run with little effort if there is not wind in the sail, using a pull by hand only. If not, there is something wrong.
 
bitbaltic said:
he’d’ve have to be putting up and rigging up his own mast to miss the halyard diverter though and thats not a normal job for a newbie
Click to expand...
Possibly, but the OP does not describe what boat he has. If its a trailer sailor he will be rigging and unrigging his boat regularly.
 
Ok I only now found time to look at it again. Im currently on it. It spins the first 10th normally, then gets gradually more difficult and you cant get past half unfurl. At that point the forestay just bends.

I tensioned it more to the point where two screwdriverd broke off and it still happens.

Cant say if the halyard is wrapping or not but I took the sail down and it turned. I greased it with wd,40 just to be sure.

After thd sails went back up I furled it by hand which was not a problem. So logically the problem only occurs when Im pulling on it. Do you think I have to tension the forestay more? Is there a tool for it? Because my screwdrivers are too thick or break off and the pliers dont hold. Its difficult to work at because of the metal pieces left and rigjt of the turnbuckle, which keep the drum straight. I only can remove one side and bent/tunr it out of the way...

Dunno how to further approach this. Thanks for all the previous answers, I know Im slow replying here but unfortunately Im quite busy with other things aswell.

To answer a few questions: the boat is a westerly cirrus 22, but the mast is quite heavy and I couldnt do it on my own like on my old boat.

Im pretty sure if there is a need for a halyard wrap preventiom system someone would have installed it on the 50 years this boat existed. Previous owner isnt a help unfortunately. She just bought the boat cheap from the boatyard and sold it off as it was abandoned.
 
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