Fulmar & Twister Owners: Opinions please!

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john_morris_uk said:
I agree with most of what you say. An interesting point that I’ve made in the past and consistently gets ignored is the way materials and available fastenings affect boat design.

If your only material is wood then designing and building a boat with a long keel is a bit of a Hobson’s choice. It’s difficult to build it any other way. Centuries of boat and ship building takes us up to the 19C. We then get the beginnings of leisure sailing and the first ocean passages in yachts (initially thought impossible madness!) and some of the myths about long keels are born because GRP and modern glues and the possibility of fin keels hadn’t happened yet. If anyone argues that there are some excellent examples of long keeled boats (like the Twister) I’m not going to argue. However what I’m disappointed in is the OP (wherever he/she’s got to) swallowing the line from some sailing literature that somehow he’s going to be better off with a long keeled boat in some sort of extreme conditions he’s unlikely to ever be in.
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That last sentence is a bit presumptuous John, sure most folk will never be in those extreme conditions, but then most folk just coastal sail and choose their weather.
We have no idea if the OP will be most folk or if he will be one of the tiny minority to point his bow westward and head off round the planet in a few years time.
And again, while almost every tub and bucket under the sun can cross an ocean, some folk will choose a design that is proven to look after you if you are unlucky enough to encounter strong gales en route.
Anyway, the answer is obvious is it not? If he has read any other threads he should get a vancouver :) :)
 
Concerto said:
In post #57 I suggested the Northney 34 as an alternative to the Twister following a comment by the OP. It was made as I thought it would be more suitable than a Twister if the OP wanted a long keel. From my experience of having sailed on a Twister, Northney 34 and a Fulmar, this is the order I would place them as being least suitable for the OP. How many other forum members can offer the same experience for he same boats?

Unfortunately the thread deviation, mainly by Buck Turgidson and Poignard, shows their more blinkered and biased view of the Twister. Most posters have tried to give a balanced view for the OP. I know I have tried to add many points for the OP to consider. We should not be arguing amongst ourselves on finer points, but trying to help the OP to make a wise decision. There is no perfect answer as older secondhand boats can vary in condition so much. Perhaps we should direct him to a boat that has already done extensive cruising as it would be better equipped for offshore sailing than a boat that has been used for coastal cruising.
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OP compared two boats,
You advocate for one and offered incorrect information about others.
I advocate for the other and corrected you.
Sorry you got the hump, we know how precious your yacht is to you, you've pushed the videos and Powerpoint on here continuously.
 
dunedin said:
The Fulmar is very far from being an “average white boat”.

And PotentillaCo32’s suggestion

Is equally far from the truth. Not least as I remember well the many sails in multiple Fulmars, which were usually fun and never scary.

The Fulmar is widely regarded as a classic boat of its era - transitioning from the older designs of the time into a much better boat for most people. It was an early design by the very talented Ed Dubois, who managed the magic trick of improving all of the performance, space, comforts and seaworthiness compared to previous generation Westerlies, some of which were already pretty good.
The wide use by sailing schools, as well as private owners, is a testament to their robustness and all weather ability.

In any list of transformational UK boats of the 20th Century the Westerly Fulmar is likely to feature - as would the Contessa 32 from the previous generation.
Whether the Twister would make the list is less clear cut. Not because it wasn’t a nice boat for its time. But rather, at that time there were so many builders building very similar designs. There were so many Folkboat inspired designs from 24-26 foot that might be selected (Folkboat itself, Contessa 26, Stella, SCOD etc). The Twister is an example of a slightly longer version of the same genre.
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I would be a little careful calling anything with a transom folk boat inspired,
This is what Mr Holman himself wrote to the editor of YM after that comparison was used:
"
The twister cannot be compared to the Folkboat - the only similarity is that they both have transom sterns.
Twister's displacement:length ratio must be more than double that of the Folkboat. Twister is heavy displace-ment, deep draught, high freeboard (for the 60's) and masthead rig. The Folk-boat is light displacement, shallow draught, low freeboard and little more than half mast rig. My only desigr which is in any way comparable to the Folkboat is the Stella. These were the requirements of my friend Dicky Bird, who sponsored the class as my client.
Any design influence would be more likely to have come from the workboats of the Fal estuary where I was brought up. (Not to be confused with the Falmouth Quay punts). They were heavy displacement transom sterned craft of moderate draught and beam which sailed and handled excellently."
 
Concerto said:
From my experience of having sailed on a Twister, Northney 34 and a Fulmar, this is the order I would place them as being least suitable for the OP. How many other forum members can offer the same experience for he same boats?
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I owned 8' of a Fulmar with 7 weeks use a year, sailed often on a Twister, had the pleasure of a Northney 34 this summer and, to add one more, have had a CO32 for the last 20 years + lots of others. Not surptisingly I would put the CO32 above the rest but have thoroughly enjoyed my time on the others. In no particular order the CO32 doesn't have sagging headlinings, heavy weather helm or a leaky hull/coachroof joint.
 
steve yates said:
That last sentence is a bit presumptuous John, sure most folk will never be in those extreme conditions, but then most folk just coastal sail and choose their weather.
We have no idea if the OP will be most folk or if he will be one of the tiny minority to point his bow westward and head off round the planet in a few years time.
And again, while almost every tub and bucket under the sun can cross an ocean, some folk will choose a design that is proven to look after you if you are unlucky enough to encounter strong gales en route.
Anyway, the answer is obvious is it not? If he has read any other threads he should get a vancouver :) :)
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You may be right. But the OP said he was looking for a boat to go cruising in with dreams one day of crossing oceans. I’m in the very fortunate position of having sailed many thousands of miles across oceans and by grace or good luck never had to be at sea in survival conditions. IMHO he needs to buy a boat to go cruising on now. It’s a step up from dinghy sailing (step down?) and making decisions on ‘survival sailing maybe one day in the future’ doesn’t make sense to me. It’s also unlikely to materialise. After he’s cruised for a year or three he’ll have a much better idea of his needs and wants.
 
john_morris_uk said:
You may be right. But the OP said he was looking for a boat to go cruising in with dreams one day of crossing oceans. I’m in the very fortunate position of having sailed many thousands of miles across oceans and by grace or good luck never had to be at sea in survival conditions. IMHO he needs to buy a boat to go cruising on now. It’s a step up from dinghy sailing (step down?) and making decisions on ‘survival sailing maybe one day in the future’ doesn’t make sense to me. It’s also unlikely to materialise. After he’s cruised for a year or three he’ll have a much better idea of his needs and wants.
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Sorry, your right, I was mixing him up with the vancouver thread OP
 
john_morris_uk said:
You may be right. But the OP said he was looking for a boat to go cruising in with dreams one day of crossing oceans. I’m in the very fortunate position of having sailed many thousands of miles across oceans and by grace or good luck never had to be at sea in survival conditions. IMHO he needs to buy a boat to go cruising on now. It’s a step up from dinghy sailing (step down?) and making decisions on ‘survival sailing maybe one day in the future’ doesn’t make sense to me. It’s also unlikely to materialise. After he’s cruised for a year or three he’ll have a much better idea of his needs and wants.
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Good advice. Plenty of good modern "starter" boats around well within the OPs budget. This one for example in Gosport portsmouth.boatshed.com/moody_29-boat-342440.html
 
Concerto said:
(...)

Unfortunately the thread deviation, mainly by Buck Turgidson and Poignard, shows their more blinkered and biased view of the Twister.
(...)
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Perhaps you had better read my post (#26) again and show where I have been "blinkered and biased".

I made it quite clear that I had never owned or sailed a Fulmar and was therefore completely unqualified to offer an opinion of its qualities, or a comparison of the two yachts.

What I did say was that I had owned my Twister for a long time, and had no found no significant reason to be dissatisfied with her.

You have, intentionally or carelessly, misrepresented me, and if you are any sort of gentleman, you will apologise to me; here in this thread.
 
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fredrussell said:
Damning with faint praise, Shirley?
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No, I reckon the Fulmar is a one of the better looking Westerlies, and well above average for all GRP sailing boats, but I admit that the Twister is much prettier.

All the same, if it came down to a choice between the two, I'd take the Fulmar in a heartbeat.
 
Well they are chalk and cheese. Regardless of how they compare on the water, you will already know which one you’re going to get. True or false?. Be honest.

Yes the Fulmar has more room and sails well, but a wooden top Twister is stunning on the water and just such a different boat. It will always attract a different buyer.
Of course there is always a really good compromise. Might well have been mentioned already. Drum roll. The contessa 32. Better looking than a Fulmar, sails better than a Fulmar and more room than a Twister. Well perhaps not.
The Twister is in a class of its own though. Amazing how 3 boats are so similar but at the same time so different.
A Twister with good sails can go like a steam train. No not mine, but my best sailing was had with the Twister.
As I’ve said, it’s already set in stone which one you will choose. Your either choose space or looks. MGC or Ford Cortina? Me I’d choose the C

Steveeasy
 
Concerto said:
In post #57 I suggested the Northney 34 as an alternative to the Twister following a comment by the OP. It was made as I thought it would be more suitable than a Twister if the OP wanted a long keel. From my experience of having sailed on a Twister, Northney 34 and a Fulmar, this is the order I would place them as being least suitable for the OP. How many other forum members can offer the same experience for he same boats?

Unfortunately the thread deviation, mainly by Buck Turgidson and Poignard, shows their more blinkered and biased view of the Twister. Most posters have tried to give a balanced view for the OP. I know I have tried to add many points for the OP to consider. We should not be arguing amongst ourselves on finer points, but trying to help the OP to make a wise decision. There is no perfect answer as older secondhand boats can vary in condition so much. Perhaps we should direct him to a boat that has already done extensive cruising as it would be better equipped for offshore sailing than a boat that has been used for coastal cruising.
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Hey, respectfully and with a tad of humour, no one is more biased and blinkered than yourself when it’s comes to a Fulmar. You must be on a big commission. Why we get so hung up on the type of boat we have. Me I’ll have another Twister, why, cos I simply like Varnishing.

Steveeasy
 
steve yates said:
The OP is 25, it would be a pretty unimaginative 25yr old who dreamt of buying a boat to sail across the channel!
Of course he want to sail across oceans and visit far flung lands, thats what sailing boats are for :) So his boat choices make perfect sense.
Just because most of us do not shouldn’t diminish those dreams.
Crack on lad, get the 32 and get out there :)
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I was a 33 year old who made that exact decision. Young family, careers that needed a lot more than 9-5, we knew we weren’t going furtyer than France in the forseeable future. We might have wanted to visit your far flung lands, but it wasn’t happening any time soon. So bought a boat on that basis, and being performance dinghy sailors, it had to be sporty at least. Different choices to yours perhaos, but being damned as unimaginative? Well, we’ve never got further than Lisbon.
 
steveeasy said:
Me I’ll have another Twister, why, cos I simply like Varnishing.
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And me I'd have the Fulmar, why, cos I simply hate varnishing :)

If you like varnishing, may I suggest this?

iu
 
Stemar said:
And me I'd have the Fulmar, why, cos I simply hate varnishing :)

If you like varnishing, may I suggest this?

iu
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That’s a well cool boat that. What’s not to like. The contessa is toast, hammering on varnish in hot sunshine. Heaven🤣


Steveeasy
 
Moody 29 Angus Primrose design isn't it? Better looking ones in the next era .

Anyone else like us who thought a Fulmar was barn-like inside?

Did anyone mention Sadler 32? Bought ours when we were 30, having had an RYA course in a North Sea 24. Still feels nice and cosy. No ocean crossing aspiration though.
 
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