Full keel vs fin keel for offshore?

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Tidjian

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I've been going back and forth the past couple weeks trying to research boats for offshore sailing. The goal is to set off from the U.S. west coast and sail to Hawaii. From there cross over to the Phillipines. What I have now is more of w coastal/great lakes cruiser. I've definitely been convinced I need to upgrade the boat for a Pacific crossing.

What no one has explained to me is the logic behind full keel vs fin keel boats. I've been coming through the boats on Atoms budget cruisers under 32'. It seems most are full or 3/4 keel boats. The only thing I can decipher from this is that they have better directional stability in rougher water and sailing downwind. Where as fin feels are better for coastal sailing as well as sailing windward. Apart from that I'm struggling to understand the significant favoritism.

In my logic I am crossing so I could see the merit in a full keel if that's all it is. But if I'm intending on spending 6+ months there sailing the islands and coastal areas I could also see the use of the fin keel.

Please help me understand why a Columbia 26 is better for this voyage than its predecessor the Columbia 26 MK II. Just an example. But aside from that keel I can't really see the big picture.
 
Welcome to the forum.

You will find endless debates about the merits or otherwise of full keels vs fin keels. In a sense it is irrelevant in your situation. Cheap, small old boats suitable for this job are mainly full keel, particularly in your location. They were popular up to the end of the 1970s (although hung on longer in the US) because they were usually GRP versions of traditional wooden boats and it was only when the potential of GRP to form different shapes was realised that better performing designs more suited to how most people actually use boats were developed.

The downside of under 32' full keel boats is that they are usually heavy, slow and lacking in space down below. On the other hand they tend to hold course better and are usually more comfortable in rough weather. So, if you are happy with slow passages and not bothered by cramped accommodation and basic facilities then the sort of boat you are looking at is good for the job. However, be aware that these will be old and often badly treated. Being heavy and having thick GRP hulls does not however necessarily mean they are strong in the sense that the bits which wear such as rigging, engines, electrics, domestic gear are often poor in the first place and suffer from poor maintenance. Such things are expensive to replace and fitting such a boat out to cross oceans can cost more than you pay for the boat itself.
 
Thanks for the welcome.

I'm definitely used to small accommodations. I currently have a tiny Grampian 23. She is only used for great lakes sailing out of Ontario but she has seen the coast twice. It's a good little boat still well maintained and in good shape. Originally I was going to outfit and beef her up in an attempt to get to Hawaii. I was talked out of this because of her size and design and the fact she really isn't meant to be an offshore or even coastal vessel. She also has a very light displacement and keel so packing gear would prove to be a struggle for such a long trip.

Since then I've been scrimmaging through Atoms list and also trying to see what's available within a distance I can reasonably tow from. I've found a lovely looking Columbia 26 but it's the MK II which has the fin keel instead of the full keel the original Columbia 26 had. Needless to say I've been getting a lot of "that isn't the boat for this voyage". But no explanation as to why.

In any event I appreciate the insight. I wish I wasn't on a budget and could afford to throw 20-30k into a newer or even bigger boat. Unfortunately I'm limited to around $5-7k if I intend on having the money to properly outfit her with what she'll need in additional to being able to float. Also if I want to spend a fair amount of time there. In any event I appreciate any advice or insight given to help me understand better what I should be looking at.
 
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Albin Vegas seem to be pretty popular over there for the trip you want to do, and in your budget?

Personally fin layout isn't a biggie for me, don't forget two bilge keel boats set off on the Golden Globe Race and got pretty far, others have set off in smaller boats and hit some rough stuff.

If you have a half decent base, you want to be spending the money on prep, upgrades and replacing worn out stuff.
 
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My knowledge extends to reading about those sorts of trip, it is brave stuff in a small boat.

If you have posted on other sites you will no doubt be aware that this sort of question provokes excited debate, often opinionated and sometimes irrelevant. So take it all in and form your own opinions.

Of your two examples I don't see anything dreadful in the Mark 2 but the people who have advised you may know of structural shortcomings and you should bear that in mind. The rudder looks vulnerable but easier to fix than the long keeler. The directional stability of the older boat should suit self steering better, be easier to put ashore and stronger in the keel. As you have suggested the livelier steering of the fin keel might well suit you better when inshore sailing at your destination.

In terms of motion comfort there is a hugely bigger margin between 25ft and 30ft loa than I would expect between the Mark 1 and 2 you are looking at. So my tip would be to consider boats from the top end of your range, they are not necessarily beyond your purse right now.

Whichever boat you choose. Best of luck with your efforts.
 
Vancouver 27, will be my choice. They are made for it.


Tidjian said:
I've been going back and forth the past couple weeks trying to research boats for offshore sailing. The goal is to set off from the U.S. west coast and sail to Hawaii. From there cross over to the Phillipines. What I have now is more of w coastal/great lakes cruiser. I've definitely been convinced I need to upgrade the boat for a Pacific crossing.

What no one has explained to me is the logic behind full keel vs fin keel boats. I've been coming through the boats on Atoms budget cruisers under 32'. It seems most are full or 3/4 keel boats. The only thing I can decipher from this is that they have better directional stability in rougher water and sailing downwind. Where as fin feels are better for coastal sailing as well as sailing windward. Apart from that I'm struggling to understand the significant favoritism.

In my logic I am crossing so I could see the merit in a full keel if that's all it is. But if I'm intending on spending 6+ months there sailing the islands and coastal areas I could also see the use of the fin keel.

Please help me understand why a Columbia 26 is better for this voyage than its predecessor the Columbia 26 MK II. Just an example. But aside from that keel I can't really see the big picture.
Click to expand...
 
The Vancouver 27 looks like a nice boat but seems to average around $30k. Unfortunately a little out of my league. Right now it's a toss up between the Columbia 26, 26 MK II and the Albin Vega. Those all seem in my price range and within reasonable distance from me. I need a trailerable boat as I reside in Ontario and need to get this boat to the coast. Heavy hauling her out there would cost as much as the boat itself.
 
Tidjian said:
The Vancouver 27 looks like a nice boat but seems to average around $30k. Unfortunately a little out of my league. Right now it's a toss up between the Columbia 26, 26 MK II and the Albin Vega. Those all seem in my price range and within reasonable distance from me. I need a trailerable boat as I reside in Ontario and need to get this boat to the coast. Heavy hauling her out there would cost as much as the boat itself.
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Matt Rutherford did an epic circumnavigation of the americas in a vega including the northwest passage. So looking like a good option!

http://americanvega.org/voyages.html
 
Full keel enthusiasts will wax lyrical about how much comfier they are at sea, fin keel enthusiasts will argue that they need to be, as you'll likely be a see a good while longer than if you had a fin keel boat.

I think its indisputable however that for any one wanting a modicum of performance, then a long keel is not the way to go. Thousands of people make safe ocean passages in comfort every year with fin keels.
Personally I would pick the fin every time, but I imagine it will come to what you can afford within your budget than anything else.
 
Tidjian said:
The Vancouver 27 looks like a nice boat but seems to average around $30k. Unfortunately a little out of my league. Right now it's a toss up between the Columbia 26, 26 MK II and the Albin Vega. Those all seem in my price range and within reasonable distance from me. I need a trailerable boat as I reside in Ontario and need to get this boat to the coast. Heavy hauling her out there would cost as much as the boat itself.
Click to expand...

If you want a Vancouver 27 there are good options for £20k.
 
If you look at the ARC lists, you'll see that there are hundreds or even thousands of fin-keeled production boats crossing oceans. Some people prefer long keels and seem to get very defensive about them, but the truth is that there are very many boats that are capable of crossing oceans. They need to be well-designed, well-built and well-maintained. Keel configuration seems to be purely a matter of choice.
 
No one seems to have mentioned the, for me, crucial difference between them.
A fin keel is bolted onto the hull. It can be torn off or badly compromised on hitting anything or grounding unintentionally.
A full keel is generally part and parcel of the structure of the boat. It cannot be detached.

I have a fin keel boat. If I was crossing oceans, and I was on a budget, I would buy a full keel boat. Cheaper boats will have all sorts of maintenance issues, one of which may be problems with the fin keel at its attachment points.
 
Ceirwan said:
Full keel enthusiasts will wax lyrical about how much comfier they are at sea, fin keel enthusiasts will argue that they need to be, as you'll likely be a see a good while longer than if you had a fin keel boat.

I think its indisputable however that for any one wanting a modicum of performance, then a long keel is not the way to go. Thousands of people make safe ocean passages in comfort every year with fin keels.
Personally I would pick the fin every time, but I imagine it will come to what you can afford within your budget than anything else.
Click to expand...

Very true.

steve yates said:
No one seems to have mentioned the, for me, crucial difference between them.
A fin keel is bolted onto the hull. It can be torn off or badly compromised on hitting anything or grounding unintentionally.
A full keel is generally part and parcel of the structure of the boat. It cannot be detached.

I have a fin keel boat. If I was crossing oceans, and I was on a budget, I would buy a full keel boat. Cheaper boats will have all sorts of maintenance issues, one of which may be problems with the fin keel at its attachment points.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily true at all. My last long keel (full keel?) boat had a keel that was bolted on. My friend has a fin keeled boat with an encapsulated keel that isn't bolted on at all.

Our current boat is a long fin and very comfortable at sea.

Directional stability isn't all about keel length. You also need to take into account hull design. Boats with broad fat sterns (designed to provide more accomodation rather that sea keeping) tend to be more skitty to steer in following waves and swell and when gusts of wind make them suddenly heel. The fat backside of the hull shape lifts the boat out of the water and increases the tendency to broach. I know of one make of boat that has a huge following that is a complete pain to sail in any sort of gusting breeze. One of the few boat designs that I know that will broach whilst sailing up wind.
 
There have been a range of people from Oz circumnavigating the world mostly single handed. Jon sanders for instance 14 circums. all in fin keel mostly of ss34 design. Quite a few others also using ss34. In deed I know of no long keel circums from Oz. That must mean something. I posted elsewhere this morning photos from our club racing every one is fin keel, except mine lift keel. So my point is fin keel must be OK for long ocean crossings single handed . olewill
 
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