Fuel transfer at sea ?

sarabande

sarabande

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I have a smallish diesel fuel tank (27l) and a selection of funnels/filters all neatly tied to the tank. It's a system which works well when alongside, but I'm wondering what is best practice when refuelling at sea. Spare fuel is in a couple of 10l plastic cans, with a 25l steel jerry can option.

The donk consumes 3l/hr at 3000 rpm, and about 1.4l/hr at 2000 rpm. Even with a full tank, that's a range of 9 hours at decent revs , giving a range of 45 miles before a top-up is needed

OPTIONS

1 Pouring into funnel

2 Plain plastic oral suction/syphon

3 Jiggle syphon

4 Electric transfer pump

5 Manual transfer pump

5 Air compression transfer pump


1, 2, 3 all require the can to be above the fuel tank, and there is no really secure nook or cranny I can tie the can to if solo. Even with a buddy and lots of absorbent blue paper roll, there's a (demonstrated) risk of some fuel spillage or overfilling.

4, 5, 6 would mean I could secure the can on the cockpit deck while operating the elec, manual, or air pump. Also I can keep an eye on the level in the fuel filler tell tale.

At the moment I am favouring the air pump route, for which I need a spare can cap with an air IN tube, and a fuel OUT tube. Easy enough to make up and store on board, and a manual air pump would be independent of any power requirement . fuses, switch, etc.


Alternative suggestions, and comments please on achieving a clean and quick RAS :)
 
I am sure it is stating the obvious and I apologize in advance but none of the solutions are exactly handy, I presume it is absolutely impossible to fit a bigger or second tank more in line with the fuel consumption. Is there not a locker floor or void somewhere that would take a proper tank?
 
Quandary said:
I am sure it is stating the obvious and I apologize in advance but none of the solutions are exactly handy, I presume it is absolutely impossible to fit a bigger or second tank more in line with the fuel consumption. Is there not a locker floor or void somewhere that would take a proper tank?
Click to expand...

Offshore boats should be able to motor at "reasonable" speed for at least 24hrs on a tankful IMO. It's written into some of the offshore racing rules. Reasonable speed could be defined along the lines of square root of LWL expressed in knots say?
 
PaulRainbow said:
Submersible pump on a length of pipe. Drop it in one of your cans and switch on, job done. Store it in a 5ltr can with the top cut off. You could take it further and plum the outlet into the boat so you don't even have to take the filler cap off.

As an example, this type of thing https://www.fueltankshop.co.uk/12v-submersible-pump-kit/p5199
Click to expand...

I have one of those pumps from Amazon. Its diameter (52mm) is too large for the can, and it needs to be submerged in the fuel to work.

An additional tank is a possibility but it leads to plumbing/filling problems.
 
First question is where is the filler? If it is on a side deck, could you have waves sloshing past?

If it is certainly dry, then a 12v transfer pump would be perfect.

I fitted an outboard style connector to the top of the internal tank and has similar connectors on spare fuel tanks, with a pump in the line!

Good luck!

Tony.
 
I have a 10m cruiser. Like you I avoid refuelling at sea when possible. However, when it is unavoidable my experience is that a moderately effective way is to use a jiggle siphon to empty a 20 litre can. My filler cap is on the quarter.

I get the boat on a course without too much rolling or pitching, prop the can between the gunwale and the dodger (lashing as necesssary) and stuff a plastic bag into the can neck to stop spray/rain getting in.

I normally put fuel from cans through a fine filter funnel but omit this when filling at sea, relying instead on my two stage filtration in the fuel line. The first filter has a drain cock and I empty it from time to time.

Funnels are a catastrophe when under way.
 
Jabs said:
First question is where is the filler? If it is on a side deck, could you have waves sloshing past?

If it is certainly dry, then a 12v transfer pump would be perfect.

I fitted an outboard style connector to the top of the internal tank and has similar connectors on spare fuel tanks, with a pump in the line!

Good luck!

Tony.
Click to expand...


The filler is in the cockpit port coaming, so normally free from sloshing waves, but it means any overspill goes straight into the cockpit and decking when on port tack.. :(



The idea of an outboard tank connector and a squeezy pump certainly leads to more thinking. Thanks.
 
I believe you can overthink this. I’ve emptied quite a few 20 litre cans of fuel into my main tank over the years and never ever had a problem or wasted a drop using the jiggle thingy to transfer fuel in all sorts of conditions. I just make myself comfortably secure, prepare myself psychologically for 3 minutes (or whatever) of pain, then go for it!
 
12V inline pump?
Maybe T'd into return line.
It would need to self prime though.
Ideally plumbed to a fitting on a spare cap, along with a one-way breather as used on some motorbikes.

I think the system ideally wants to be either fast, or capable of working unattended without mishap.
 
Used this sort of thing for over 20 years to fill tank at sea from 5 gallon drum with no spills. Couple of quid on eBay. The only limitation is when the deck filler is awash, but I think that will apply to most systems.
s-l300.jpg
 
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Quiddle said:
Used this sort of thing for over 20 years to fill tank at sea
View attachment 66586
Click to expand...

Me too. Filler cap is on starboard quarter. I place the drum in the corner of the pushpit and, if necessary, I lift the siphon pump or open the siphon-break cap if an overflow seems imminent.
Knowing the hourly consumption, even if approximately, one soon gets to a pretty accurate educated guess as to how much top-up is required.
A sight-glass in a convenient location is also useful to give an indication of how much more the tank can take.
 
Quiddle said:
Used this sort of thing for over 20 years to fill tank at sea from 5 gallon drum with no spills. Couple of quid on eBay. The only limitation is when the deck filler is awash, but I think that will apply to most systems.
View attachment 66586
Click to expand...

+1

Use that all the time as I use white fuel from Tescos. 20l cans which are reasonably easy to lift on and off. Fortunately the tank is 150l so 70 odd hours running time.
 
sarabande said:
I have one of those pumps from Amazon. Its diameter (52mm) is too large for the can, and it needs to be submerged in the fuel to work.

An additional tank is a possibility but it leads to plumbing/filling problems.
Click to expand...

Would this work?;)
RAS01.jpg
 
sarabande said:
5 Air compression transfer pump


At the moment I am favouring the air pump route, for which I need a spare can cap with an air IN tube, and a fuel OUT tube. Easy enough to make up and store on board, and a manual air pump would be independent of any power requirement . fuses, switch, etc.


Alternative suggestions, and comments please on achieving a clean and quick RAS :)
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I made. It is important to have a tap on the outlet as it's impossible to dump the pressure quickly enough to stop it overflowing.
 

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sarabande said:
I have a smallish diesel fuel tank (27l) and a selection of funnels/filters all neatly tied to the tank. It's a system which works well when alongside, but I'm wondering what is best practice when refuelling at sea. Spare fuel is in a couple of 10l plastic cans, with a 25l steel jerry can option.

The donk consumes 3l/hr at 3000 rpm, and about 1.4l/hr at 2000 rpm. Even with a full tank, that's a range of 9 hours at decent revs , giving a range of 45 miles before a top-up is needed

OPTIONS

1 Pouring into funnel

2 Plain plastic oral suction/syphon

3 Jiggle syphon

4 Electric transfer pump

5 Manual transfer pump

5 Air compression transfer pump


1, 2, 3 all require the can to be above the fuel tank, and there is no really secure nook or cranny I can tie the can to if solo. Even with a buddy and lots of absorbent blue paper roll, there's a (demonstrated) risk of some fuel spillage or overfilling.

4, 5, 6 would mean I could secure the can on the cockpit deck while operating the elec, manual, or air pump. Also I can keep an eye on the level in the fuel filler tell tale.

At the moment I am favouring the air pump route, for which I need a spare can cap with an air IN tube, and a fuel OUT tube. Easy enough to make up and store on board, and a manual air pump would be independent of any power requirement . fuses, switch, etc.


Alternative suggestions, and comments please on achieving a clean and quick RAS :)
Click to expand...

I have been deliberating the same issue. As others have said, you need to consider the risk, no matter how small, of seawater entering the filler cap while it is off. In my case, i decided the risk was too great so decided on an electric submersible pump like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rule-12v-...line-or-Submersible-4gpm-IL280P-/111038593210 permanently teed into, via an isolation ball valve, to the filler pipe. I did consider teeing it into the fuel return line but was not sure whether it would restrict the return line flow with the pump running and the engine running. I did buy a cheeper subersible pump from ebay but the outside diameter was too big for the kneck of a plastic 20L fuel drum so sent it back.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
 
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Two of you picked up the RAS reference :) Doesn't the mgihty Ark look small against the new ships ?

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions and options. I'll see what kit I have lying around, and let you know what I decide. The criteria will be solo use and no spillages.
 
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Jiggle syphon works fine. Our tank filler is on the (sugar scoop) transom, so can gets placed on deck and could be lashed onto the pushpit if needed, hose shoved down the tank filler about half a meter (creates plenty of drop for the syphon to work), jiggle bit into jerrycan and then jiggle until fuel flows. Works well and I've done this in atlantic swell. Even if your filler is on the deck it will work, as long as you shove enough of the hose down the filler it creates enough of a drop.
 
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