fuel bleeder and starter motor help please!

[Falcoron]

HINO WO6D 250hp

About to set the boat into water this week and doing final checks after 3 years on hard stand renovating this boat, i was going through some checks before getting set in.
last Oct i winterised the engines, all went well both started fist time after new cables batteries etc fitted. Anti freeze mix pumped in impellers doing what they do, once antifreeze was seen out of both exhausts turned off and happy the protection was there in place.

Now, back to this weekend i changed the fuel filters on engine after fitting 2 Racor pre filters close to tank, so wanted the engine ones changed before setting in the water. Did first engine and bled through to new filter started engine all sweet started on the button ran for a few seconds and switched off, all good.

went to second engine changed filter, and pumped away at the bleed pump, opened the bleed bolt on filter housing which was "very" tight, but got opened, bled all air out as before and "gently" nipped up, But wouldn't tighten just kept turning so suspected the threads have sheered.
Removed the bleed bolt and there was the internal threads on the bolt threads so it no longer has threads in the housing! Nightmare 1.
So my choice is removing the housing and getting a bigger hole bored and threaded and a larger bleed screw. or Buy a new filter housing if i can get one.
Searching now, it is not looking good!

I was still able to put the bleed screw back in and stop diesel weeping but would not trust it to stay so will be doing one of the above.

I still wanted to see if it would start so pressed the start and the starter was really slow to turn, then she blew the 125a fuse that feeds the starter.
I replaced that fuse and tried again just as before she turned slowly but blew again
So i take it that starter is seized or on the way out.

looking for suggestion's on what to check, and what to do with starter, replace or get refurbished.

All suggestions and help appreciated cheers.
Ron

 

[DavidJ]

With a spanner on the crankshaft can you compare the stiffness of one engine with the other. Im thinking it’s not a starter motor problem (for your sake I hope I’m wrong)

 

[Falcoron]

Not sure i could turn these engines, both big lumps 6 cyl 250hp turbos

 

[Portofino]

Not sure i could turn these engines, both big lumps 6 cyl 250hp turbos

Yes you can !
Diesels have loose rings which expand as the EGT s rise to seal ,
So when stone cold unlike petrols ( with compression- your point ? ) you can turn them with a spanner on the crank pulley bolt .
Or a bar on a socket .
I could easily “ bar “ 13 Litre 700 Hp MAN s no problem when I did the valve lash .Obviously stone cold .


Normal ratchet with a bit of sq bar for leverage .



Stick it on the crank pulley and away you go .

 

[kashurst]

You should be able to turn the engine over - however a spanner won't do it. You will need correct socket and a tommy bar - something at least 2 feet long. As it rotates you will feel the compression building and releasing. If you cannot turn it over that's a problem. There is no way you will be able to turn it fast enough to accidentally start it, so don't worry about that.
Fingers crossed it will turn over OK. Try the good engine to get the feel of what it should be like. It could just be that the starter has gone pop and blown the fuse.

The stripped thread in the fuel filter lid would probably fix easily with a helicoil insert. You can buy cheap kits on ebay. Drill it out, tap with the helicoil tap and then screw in the insert and break of the end tab. It's very easy. Probably cost about a tenner.

 

[Portofino]

With a spanner on the crankshaft can you compare the stiffness of one engine with the other. Im thinking it’s not a starter motor problem (for your sake I hope I’m wrong)

Yup .
I am not a fan of pumping anything through stopped motors .Esp marine diesels with wet exhausts .
Despite what the book says or the guy in the pub advises you .
The risk of somehow getting the pressure wrong , the height difference of the water injection ports into said exhaust , plus a dose of Sod’s law means the inevitable water ends up trickling back to those cylinders with open exhaust valves and filling a jug or two ?

Hence the starter motor blowing fuses .It can’t turn when currents flowing .

 

[Falcoron]

Yes you can !
Diesels have loose rings which expand as the EGT s rise to seal ,
So when stone cold unlike petrols ( with compression- your point ? ) you can turn them with a spanner on the crank pulley bolt .
Or a bar on a socket .
I could easily “ bar “ 13 Litre 700 Hp MAN s no problem when I did the valve lash .Obviously stone cold .

View attachment 175839
Normal ratchet with a bit of sq bar for leverage .

View attachment 175840

Stick it on the crank pulley and away you go .

Thank you I will give that a go when I return to the boat

 

[Falcoron]

You should be able to turn the engine over - however a spanner won't do it. You will need correct socket and a tommy bar - something at least 2 feet long. As it rotates you will feel the compression building and releasing. If you cannot turn it over that's a problem. There is no way you will be able to turn it fast enough to accidentally start it, so don't worry about that.
Fingers crossed it will turn over OK. Try the good engine to get the feel of what it should be like. It could just be that the starter has gone pop and blown the fuse.

The stripped thread in the fuel filter lid would probably fix easily with a helicoil insert. You can buy cheap kits on ebay. Drill it out, tap with the helicoil tap and then screw in the insert and break of the end tab. It's very easy. Probably cost about a tenner.

Good stuff thank you

 

[Falcoron]

Yup .
I am not a fan of pumping anything through stopped motors .Esp marine diesels with wet exhausts .
Despite what the book says or the guy in the pub advises you .
The risk of somehow getting the pressure wrong , the height difference of the water injection ports into said exhaust , plus a dose of Sod’s law means the inevitable water ends up trickling back to those cylinders with open exhaust valves and filling a jug or two ?

Hence the starter motor blowing fuses .It can’t turn when currents flowing .

When I say pumped all I did was pour antifreeze mix into the raw water intake through the weed traps. Making sure it didn’t go dry when engines were running just enough to show anti freeze coming though exhaust.
This is what every boat on the hard stand in my marine does every autumn when boat is lifted out and what the mechanics do for paying clients who don’t do it themselves. My Pumped comment was a poor choice of words.
Hopefully it’s just the starter and nothing sinister as it started fine when I winterised her in Oct. I’ve been renovating this and thought I had it finally done. If this is a major engine job I’m done don’t have a cent left and maxed out all credit

 

[Portofino]

When I say pumped all I did was pour antifreeze mix into the raw water intake through the weed traps. Making sure it didn’t go dry when engines were running just enough to show anti freeze coming though exhaust.
This is what every boat on the hard stand in my marine does every autumn when boat is lifted out and what the mechanics do for paying clients who don’t do it themselves. My Pumped comment was a poor choice of words.
Hopefully it’s just the starter and nothing sinister as it started fine when I winterised her in Oct. I’ve been renovating this and thought I had it finally done. If this is a major engine job I’m done don’t have a cent left and maxed out all credit

Arh .
Yes now it’s looking like a stuck starter motor only . They ( inc the solenoid? ) can be removed and cleaned up or rebuilt ?

 

[Falcoron]

Arh .
Yes now it’s looking like a stuck starter motor only . They ( inc the solenoid? ) can be removed and cleaned up or rebuilt ?

God! I really hope you are right!
So close to completion after such a long hard slog!
Fingers crossed

 

[Assassin]

You can get repair kits for them and they include things like the brushes and the little masties which either break or wear out.

Never oil them, use a graphite stick or pencil to lugricate them.

 

[Falcoron]

Well i found i made a rooky mistake when replacing the old wiring and ISO on the boat on this engine!
I put a mega fuse on the starter cable!
The other engine was done correctly and starts on the button. Was told the fuse will act like a resistor then blow as the starter pulls more power,
So will sort that and when starter is out will get it checked and refurbished or preplaced if required.
hopefully that is all this is.

 

[vas]

after a rebuilt, and considering you cannot pushstart a boat engine compared to a car, I'd say spent some (little!) money to rebuilt both starter motors. Any car electrician will do, replace bearings, check it, clean it and put it back together!
re filter, just helicoil the thread and be done with...

I wholeheartly wish you these are the only problems you have with your rebuilt

V.

 

[Seastoke]

A fuse is not a resistance

 

[Falcoron]

after a rebuilt, and considering you cannot pushstart a boat engine compared to a car, I'd say spent some (little!) money to rebuilt both starter motors. Any car electrician will do, replace bearings, check it, clean it and put it back together!
re filter, just helicoil the thread and be done with...

I wholeheartly wish you these are the only problems you have with your rebuilt

V.

Thanks that is what im doing

 

[Falcoron]

A fuse is not a resistance

OK, but its not correct to have one in the starter cable!
so that is getting sorted too.
Foolish error on my part.

 

[DavidJ]

Thanks that is what im doing

Hang about!
You may find after removing the fuse that you don’t have a problem. Lock-torque amps on a car starter motor is about 500A and cranking reduces down to 250A and below so not surprised that you blew a 125A fuse on a marine engine with probably double the above figures for a larger stater motor.
OK there still might be a problem with one of your starter motors but don’t go wasting money on reconditioning the one that works. I can’t imagine that this is routine for anyone on this forum.

 

[Falcoron]

Hang about!
You may find after removing the fuse that you don’t have a problem. Lock-torque amps on a car starter motor is about 500A and cranking reduces down to 250A and below so not surprised that you blew a 125A fuse on a marine engine with probably double the above figures for a larger stater motor.
OK there still might be a problem with one of your starter motors but don’t go wasting money on reconditioning the one that works. I can’t imagine that this is routine for anyone on this forum.

Yeah agreed, the fuse in the starter cable was my error and is being taken out, the cable is very heavy and short enough not to reduce its power handling, so good there also.
The starter is getting removed simply to check it is ok but only if there is still an issue when the fuse is no longer in the chain.
As you say might not have an issue bar the stupidity of fitting that fuse.