Frightening Ignorance

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Dominic

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I have been following the recent liferaft thread.

It started with a simple question. (There is no such thing as a stupid question).

From my viewpoint as an RYA YM Instructor I have to suggest that some of the replies are;

1. Factually incorrect.
2. Betray a frightening ignorance of the way liferafts can be deployed.
3. Are dangerously misleading.

Also some were very useful.

This is a wonderful forum for exchanging knowledge but the questioner should apply a filter to responses which anyone who paid attention on a Competent Crew Course should get right.

Before the "auto-abuse" replies get launched can I ask one question?

Do you really know what you are talking about when you answer queries on the forum ?

(I know I don´t).



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I agree with what you say . . .

I'm sure we all have our own individual area of expertise, and any replies to threads on these forms that we make regarding these areas of expertise are given, and usually stated as given, from this standpoint.

There are many other subjective areas where we each have an opinion. e.g. The Petrol -v- Diesel thread, or the rag-and-stick -v- stinkie.

IMHO (and I would like to stress that this is just that - MHO), the benefits of these forms is that many, often conflicting, views are expressed. On many occasions, the debate raises issues that I have not considered, and I can then assimilate these into a conclusion that I personally am happy with.

I agree that life-rafts (and other safety issues) cause a lot of ill-considered & sometimes downright dangerous views to be expressed. I would like to think that if I, in my ignorance, was to postulate such views, I would be smartly corrected by someone with much more practical and personal experience.

Talking of life-rafts, I wonder how many people just go out & buy one, stick in on board, think they are now "Safe", but haven't a clue as to how to use it to survive should the need arise?? No doubt this will bring out a few replies . . .

Jim

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Completely agree with what you say, and I for one am not afraid to display my ignorance in the hope of being corrected. The wealth of knowledge shared on this forum is quite remarkable ..

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Hi Jim,

Completely agree, especially with your last paragraph. I think there is a danger that we start thinking that safety is something that can be bought, and whilst there is much good equipment out there, without proper training its probably about as much use as a fridge in the Artic, and may even get people into more trouble than if they didn't have it (not sure if there are documented cases of this happening).

Chris

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Re: auto-abuse

Oh, you can't leave it like that - which bits were totally wrong? (My bit was definitely correct - there *is* good snow inthe alps!)

It might be more useful to pitch in and correct the incorrect replies in that thread. YMexaminer or not, there's not a lot in a YM course to check/expand special expertise with regard to liferafts, is there? But anyway, let us know the wrong bits, and do please stop being all examinerish, tutting quietly and (the worst) sighing and shaking your head.

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Dominic

Your position is stated, but a short critique of the main points of concern would be most helpful.

Robih

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when i went on the sea survival course the instructor asked us to list the things we expected to find in the liferaft. of the long list of items expected, fewer than 20% were realistic.

only a very few people go on this course - comm. endorsement candidates and a few responsible souls - so it seems most people go around in blissful ignorance. hence people leaving viable boats to drown in rafts in the fastnet.

much better to politely correct misconceptions, you may save someone's life.

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Re: Do you know what you\'re talking about?

Nope. Since when was that a requirement?

People express their opinions through their own experience and predjudices. Many of them are wrong, some of them have more relevance than others, but all are valid.

If people take stuff off this forum as gospel and use it without common sense then that would REALLY be silly. When was the last time you read some sales literature? Did you believe it?

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Inconsistent Advice

Funnily enough the best source of inconsistent and conflicting advice I have ever received has been from sailing instructors. As with some of the contributors to this forum, filtering is essential . What has always amazed me is how much Sailing Instructors slag each other off and other schools. I was balled out on an OYC Skippers assessment course on Team Spirit of Wight once by a YM examiner over how I had marked up a tidal atlas. "Who taught you to mark up a tidal atlas like this, it's wrong" he bellowed. "Tom Cunliffe" I replied but he still wasn't having it. So come off it Dominic, you lot are worst than everyone on the forum put together !

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Re: Inconsistent Advice

quite right.

The elevation to instructor seems to be accompnaied with some favourite ways of doing things, which they then enforce in no uncertain terms.

Every single instructor has preferred a particular (slightly different) way of retrieving MOB, tying up, one went mental about using figures of eight, another would only permit roundturns and hitches at the quayside and so on.

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I would rather stay out of the argument about who knows best, but I would encourage anyone who buys a liferaft for a thousand quid or so to do a sea survival course for a few hundred more and learn how to use it.

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Is this posting a Troll?

Dominic, a thread that accuses others of such things as making 'factual incorrect', 'frightening ignorance' and 'dangerously misleading' postings without being specific is at risk of being taken for a troll. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I assume that you are referring to the thread on 'Liferaft Stowage' started by Webcraft a week or so ago.

To my mind this thread was an example of the forum at its best. Some of the ideas were certainly questionable, but as far as I could see those did not go unchallenged. The thread gave participants the opportunity to think through the pro's and con's of various strategies. Ultimately I believe that listening to others ideas and thinking through safety issues (even with mistaken preconceptions) does more to promote safety than blindly accepting some cookbook standard approach. I'll go with those who advocate practice and personal experience (simulated or real) as well.

Say what you think is wrong, and be prepared for others to challenge your view. It's a lesson of this forum that long-cherished beliefs about the correct way to tackle a particular problem may not be the only way, and there are more solutions than orthodoxy will sometimes admit to.
 
Re: What\'s a troll ?

deliberate attempt to inflame posters, starting a riot on purpose, or at the very least aimed to get lots of replies. Good example include ...there as one a while back where somebody asked if it would be ok to photocopy bits of the pilot guides instead of using proper charts to save money. Also...er your post asking "what's a troll?"
 
Re: Inconsistent Advice

To be fair its not restricted to instructors. Every skipper I've ever sailed with had his own way of doing things, and got very annoyed if you did it differently. I swore I'd never be like that when I got my own boat.

So now that I have got my own boat, I naturally yell at anyone who doesn't do things my way!

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Take every posting as a....

Personal Opinion and you can't go wrong!

Also, don't forget ...I O I S






lower







and lower still








bit further






almost there



It's Only the Internet, Stupid!


Steve Cronin

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Best place to store a liferaft?

Get the hammer out of the cockpit locker. Use this hammer to smash the glass fronted box mounted on the chart table bulkhead. Take the key out of the box and take it to the forepeak. Remove the bunk cushons and bunk tops. Reach inside the locker and undo the padlock with the key. Then undo the securing straps. Then manhandle the raft through the saloon and out through the hatch. Hand the painter to SWIMBO and inflate. Then all you have to do is hop in remembering first to take your favoured item off the "useless things in a liferaft" thread and your sorted IMHO.

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What is worse?

What is worse and I can comment as I am an instructor in other areas, is a fellow instructor who thinks he is GOD. And does not respect other people's opinion!!

A wiseman learns by others mistakes, even YM Instructors!!

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