Fretting a bit about security - what are your thoughts?

Just to say thanks to all who have given a considered response.

The path to carrying a rifle on board would be lengthy and not without reasonable cost, so it's no small decision to make.

It's comforting to see common themes develop, such as making sensible choices based on local knowledge - something you will appreciate is hard to do when sailing from the armchair, as I currently am!

Conquering and rationlalisng the fear of the unknown is all part of life, and I'll need to become a master at it if my dream to live aboard permanently will turn into reality.
 
Flip the coin......

Ive cruised that area quite a bit, from Venezuela up to the Bahamas, several different times. Felt largely quite safe provided we kept aware. Just like anywhere really.

It was my mate Colin that got shot in Bequia recently. Reaching for a 'weapon'. Best not to do that, then!

Would I go back and cruise that area? Yes.

Would I ever cruise armed? No. Thats with extensive service weapons training. Not gonna shoot some daft burglar, or my foot.

CS
 
Ben9000 said:
Conquering and rationlalisng the fear of the unknown is all part of life, and I'll need to become a master at it if my dream to live aboard permanently will turn into reality.
Click to expand...

+ another 1.

though not quite sure about the wording, I found after a while cruising there was a slow realization that you can't predict the future onboard with any degree of accuracy. So what works is mostly ignore it with the confidence that whatever the previous future threw at you was dealt with successfully, so there's a good chance that todays future will be also successfully dealt with. :cool:
 
Talulah said:
Worth posting on an American forum. You'll get a completely different type of response.
Click to expand...
Yeah
Here all the do Gooders have piped up .
Nobody is going to openly admit they carry a firearm on board .
Be interesting to know the real crime stats re US " penanted" boats vs others ?
Practically pop along to your local clay pidgeon club , have a go , follow it up then apply for a uk licence 12 G .
You might like it .A " slug" will hole a boat , and BB,s into the fuel tank( outboard) will make an interesting spectacle and disrupt their intensions
Who said anything about killing anyone .
Up anchor sail away .
As an ex Paratrooper no apologies for different view .
Some Shot guns are cheap as chips East European brands .
 
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timmygobang said:
I would get a can of this mounted in the forepeak
http://www.ecrater.co.uk/p/5402133/guard-alaska-bearspray-br-9?gps=1
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Though note the following from UK HMRC Website:

The following goods are banned completely regardless of which country you're travelling from or having goods sent from.
• illicit drugs
• flick and gravity knives
• self defence sprays such as pepper and CS gas sprays
• stun guns
• indecent and obscene material
• counterfeit, pirated and patent-infringing goods
Click to expand...

So, you could mail-order buy it, but it will be seized on arrival in the UK.

Despite being illegal in most countries, quite a few long-distance yachties do carry bearspray, usually purchased legally from a camping shop in Canada and taken aboard there. The canisters look very like fire extinguishers, and can be easily painted and disguised as such. Just don't use the wrong can to put out the barbie!
 
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Ben9000 said:
So I was thinking of obtaining a firearms licence and carrying a projectile weapon of my own.
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Shotgun Certificates are easily obtainable for reputable people with an approved safe at a permanent address.

Firearms Certificates are harder. You need to have 'good reason,' and self-defense is specifically stated not to be a good reason! Quite right.

Telling lies on the form leaves you facing jail.
Exporting any type of firearm is a nightmare, and getting caught in breach of any protocol - you guessed it - risk of jail time.

So you're not going to get a gun legally in the UK for your purposes!
 
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MERCHANT SHIPPING NOTICE
MSN 1704 (M+F)

Prohibited Firearms

3. The Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 provides for the categorisation of large calibre handguns as prohibited firearms under Section 5 of the 1968 Firearms Act, with effect from 1 July 1997; the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 provides for the same categorisation of small calibre pistols, with effect from 1 February 1998. The effect of these Acts is to introduce a general ban on the possession of all handguns. This ban will apply to the carriage of such weapons as ships’ equipment. The ban has no effect upon the carriage of signalling apparatus
 
I don't like the idea of stating on a public forum (or a pub) that it is better to roll over and stand aside so that any thief can help himself to your stuff. It will not be long before this attitude becomes common knowledge on the waterfront. Displaying to the thief that you don't have the courage to even attempt a defence will entice them to go for gold, and maybe eye your young daughter.

I if you lack the courage to defend your family, sail in safe areas only. Nothing wrong with knowing your limits. If you do get boarded in a safe area then wave your arms, shout, and push them around. They won't shoot you for that but they MAY respect you rather than sneer at your cowardice. They will take what they want anyway but don't make life harder for the sailor who follows you by giving the impression that all sailors are basically wimps.

My opinion on this is based on the knowledge that the the biggest killers out there are mosquitoes, (3 million a year I think) followed by such things as animal and reptile bites (A few thousand a year) etc. Then there is Cancer, Heart attack, and god knows what other nasties that will eventually get us all no matter what defence we make.

Thieves and murderes are way down the list.

In the British Army there was a saying. If You Can't Fight ... Wear a Big Hat.

Don't roll over. But take care
 
GrahamM376 said:
3. The Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 provides for the categorisation of large calibre handguns as prohibited firearms under Section 5 of the 1968 Firearms Act, with effect from 1 July 1997; the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 provides for the same categorisation of small calibre pistols, with effect from 1 February 1998. The effect of these Acts is to introduce a general ban on the possession of all handguns. This ban will apply to the carriage of such weapons as ships’ equipment. The ban has no effect upon the carriage of signalling apparatus
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So is it true then that the law pertaining to guns is the flag of the ship, not the nationality of the skipper ? What if I chartered a yacht in the USA and "tooled up" there with automatic weapons ? Would I be breaking UK law ? And if I was an American and visited the UK in my yacht carrying a hand gun what does the (UK) law say about that ?

Thanks,

Boo2
 
My understanding (I'm not a lawyer) is - The law of the country of registration applies to those on board in most cases but of course you can be nicked elsewhere for committing a crime in another country.

If on a foreign flagged vessel or on land, Brits can carry licensed firearms outside of UK territory.

Foreigners bringing licensed firearms to the UK would, I think, have them impounded until departure but, if not declared then most likely confiscated.

Bearing in mind that many people have been shot with their own weapons and the sh*tload of trouble, even imprisonment and maybe confiscation of the vessel, for having guns in some countries, I wouldn't even consider having one on board.
 
Whatever The Problem - Guns Are Not The Solution

GrahamM376 said:
Bearing in mind that many people have been shot with their own weapons and the sh*tload of trouble, even imprisonment and maybe confiscation of the vessel, for having guns in some countries, I wouldn't even consider having one on board.
Click to expand...

Have to agree - fire first & you have just committed murder - fire second! Say no more.

My solution - avoid areas where gun-law may rule.
 
Remember that the law about flag of the country of registration doesn't apply in "internal waters" - which (for the UK) covers an awful lot of the waters we sail in, and EVERY harbour or sheltered anchorage. "Internal waters" are fully subject to national legislation, they are not subject to the right of "innocent passage". Internal waters are all waters within the baseline of a country - that's effectively a line joining islands or prominent headlands belonging to the country. For the UK, pretty mucj all the waters inshore of the Hebrides, the Bristol Channel, the Solent, the Wash, The Humber and ALL the south coast natural harbours are "internal waters". The UK has traditionally a fairly relaxed view about these waters, and doesn't tend to distinguish them from territorlal waters (where innocent passage may apply), but YMMV! Given the UK attitude to guns in general, I'd suspect that a yacht found to be carrying an undeclared firearm in internal waters could expect to have a lot of explaining to do to a judge, with a wide variety of possible criminal charges involved. Saying "But I am American registered" won't cut much ice in internal waters.
 
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