French Rescue services

[Daydream believer]

Some of you may be aware of the thread concerning the RNLI accounts
A lot of sniping is going on but one post raised my concerns

It appears that a British couple rescued by the French in the Rade De Brest were treated rather badly
Now I have no idea of the circumstances or truth in the actual post
But it does get me wondering about the French rescue services & how they treat those assisted
In this country , if I was in genuine need of assistance i would have no qualms about accepting help from the RNLI
But what if I was in France. Would I get a massive bill. i did read about someone being charged £ 10,000-00 for a simple tow in but this could have been more hearsay than anything else

Has anyone reading this had first hand experience & what was the outcome

 

[Sybarite]

Some of you may be aware of the thread concerning the RNLI accounts
A lot of sniping is going on but one post raised my concerns

It appears that a British couple rescued by the French in the Rade De Brest were treated rather badly
Now I have no idea of the circumstances or truth in the actual post
But it does get me wondering about the French rescue services & how they treat those assisted
In this country , if I was in genuine need of assistance i would have no qualms about accepting help from the RNLI
But what if I was in France. Would I get a massive bill. i did read about someone being charged £ 10,000-00 for a simple tow in but this could have been more hearsay than anything else

Has anyone reading this had first hand experience & what was the outcome

Were they towed in by the SNSM or was it, say, a fishing boat claiming salvage? If the former, there would normally be no charge as they were saving people where there was a distinct potential danger.

The preceding head of the SNSM wanted to make everything free but he couldn't bring on board the individual stations who said that their finances depended to a certain extent on the towing charges when life wasn't in danger. These charges must include only the direct costs related to the shout, an hourly rate having been established for each type of boat and overseen by the Cours des Comptes.

There is a certain logic to this. Those who need the tow are those who pay and surely these people could justify an insurance claim?

I once had an engine breakdown and radio'd to the Capitainerie if they would assist me into my berth. I was sailing back and they came right out and gave me a tow the whole way back. Under my contract they had the right to bill me but they didn't.

 

[dogleg]

Were they towed in by the SNSM or was it, say, a fishing boat claiming salvage? If the former, there would normally be no charge as they were saving people where there was a distinct potential danger.

The preceding head of the SNSM wanted to make everything free but he couldn't bring on board the individual stations who said that their finances depended to a certain extent on the towing charges when life wasn't in danger. These charges must include only the direct costs related to the shout, an hourly rate having been established for each type of boat and overseen by the Cours des Comptes.

There is a certain logic to this. Those who need the tow are those who pay and surely these people could justify an insurance claim?

I once had an engine breakdown and radio'd to the Capitainerie if they would assist me into my berth. I was sailing back and they came right out and gave me a tow the whole way back. Under my contract they had the right to bill me but they didn't.

The preceding head of the SNSM wanted to make everything free but he couldn't bring on board the individual stations who said that their finances depended to a certain extent on the towing charges when life wasn't in danger.


but this is not the case with the RNLI or the KNRM

 

[basic]

My boat is based in France and I know the local SNSM crew very well. They say there is no charge for saving life but there is a charge for saving property. This seems fair especially as many yachtsmen seem to regard the lifeboat as another version of the AA. Engine failure should not be a reason to call out the lifeboat. Those who do should pay. 1000 euro for a tow is not uncommon. Be warned.

 

[Sybarite]

Were they towed in by the SNSM or was it, say, a fishing boat claiming salvage? If the former, there would normally be no charge as they were saving people where there was a distinct potential danger.

The preceding head of the SNSM wanted to make everything free but he couldn't bring on board the individual stations who said that their finances depended to a certain extent on the towing charges when life wasn't in danger. These charges must include only the direct costs related to the shout, an hourly rate having been established for each type of boat and overseen by the Cours des Comptes.

There is a certain logic to this. Those who need the tow are those who pay and surely these people could justify an insurance claim?

I once had an engine breakdown and radio'd to the Capitainerie if they would assist me into my berth. I was sailing back and they came right out and gave me a tow the whole way back. Under my contract they had the right to bill me but they didn't.

After re-reading the original post it was indeed a salvage claim and therefore out of context concerning the SNSM.

 

[Daydream believer]

After re-reading the original post it was indeed a salvage claim and therefore out of context concerning the SNSM.

All I asked for was the how people had faired when rescued by the French rescue services
I do not believe anything in my original post was " out of context" I just used the (un proven)example as an introduction as to why I was asking

I was hoping that a few other "unbiased" people with first hand experience can give accurate report for the benefit of others
I am off to France this week & will be cruising down to Cherbourg & I am worried about what might happen if I needed help

In the past I have been in a situation where I needed assistance - A net around the prop at night just off Boulogne- & single handed
Because I was concerned about getting assistance in France & being " conned" by a bunch of f..gs I endured a long sail back to Dover (& being nearly run down twice) A £ 40-00 gratuity to the crew of a pilot boat had me safely tied up in a berth, with little assistance from me as I was very sea sick
I think that was a better outcome than £ 1000-00 charge

If I had called the RNLI- once on this side of the channel- it would have been free ( although last time that happened I donated £ 250-00 as a thank you so it was not quite that free)

It is quite conceivable that someone needing help in French waters might delay a call because they are worried about the inevitable cost outcome
That could lead to a simple situation becoming more serious

 

[dogleg]

My boat is based in France and I know the local SNSM crew very well. They say there is no charge for saving life but there is a charge for saving property. This seems fair especially as many yachtsmen seem to regard the lifeboat as another version of the AA. Engine failure should not be a reason to call out the lifeboat. Those who do should pay. 1000 euro for a tow is not uncommon. Be warned.

Engine failure should not be a reason to call out the lifeboat.[/I]

engine failure in bad weather on a lee shore or close to shallow water or a busy shipping lane especially at night and/or poor visibilty may well be a reason for a lifeboat to launch

 

[Daydream believer]

My boat is based in France and I know the local SNSM crew very well. They say there is no charge for saving life but there is a charge for saving property. This seems fair especially as many yachtsmen seem to regard the lifeboat as another version of the AA. Engine failure should not be a reason to call out the lifeboat. Those who do should pay. 1000 euro for a tow is not uncommon. Be warned.

Please do not think I am digging at you in this next post. I am just trying to get down to the real answer.

So how do they differentiate the life saving bit from property?
If a yacht with a family aboard & is drifting onto rocks & is towed in, is that a life saved or property saved?
Or do they say "We saved your life for free but we want 1000-00 euros for the boat"
If they do say that, then saying that the life saving service is for free is just a mild form of "con "

As for suggesting engine failure is not a valid reason for calling a lifeboat ( let's face it you would not know what other service to call in a foreign land) just try getting into Boulogne at night when single handed without an engine in light airs.
(In my case I did think about sailing into the harbour & running aground on the bank & sorting the net but i discounted that as I thought the problem was more severe & wanted access to more approachable people)

 

[JumbleDuck]

So how do they differentiate the life saving bit from property?
If a yacht with a family aboard & is drifting onto rocks & is towed in, is that a life saved or property saved?
Or do they say "We saved your life for free but we want 1000-00 euros for the boat"

Perhaps they say "We'll take you ashore in the lifeboat for free, but if you want us to save your boat as well there will be a charge". It's not wholly unreasonable - after all, the RNLI tags itself as "the charity which saves lives at sea", not "the charity which gives tows to well -off leisure sailors who have forgotten to top up with diesel and are in too much of a hurry to sail", which would be more honest but might cut down the legacy income.

 

[dogleg]

Please do not think I am digging at you in this next post. I am just trying to get down to the real answer.

So how do they differentiate the life saving bit from property?
If a yacht with a family aboard & is drifting onto rocks & is towed in, is that a life saved or property saved?
Or do they say "We saved your life for free but we want 1000-00 euros for the boat"
If they do say that, then saying that the life saving service is for free is just a mild form of "con "

As for suggesting engine failure is not a valid reason for calling a lifeboat ( let's face it you would not know what other service to call in a foreign land) just try getting into Boulogne at night when single handed without an engine in light airs.
(In my case I did think about sailing into the harbour & running aground on the bank & sorting the net but i discounted that as I thought the problem was more severe & wanted access to more approachable people)

many large commercial harbours in the UK are not keen on a yacht without engine power coming into harbour and will often insist on assistance by tow either by harbour launch or local lifeboat

I agree that not all engine failures require a lifeboat but circumstances can change dramatically

 

[awol]

So how do they differentiate the life saving bit from property?
If a yacht with a family aboard & is drifting onto rocks & is towed in, is that a life saved or property saved?
Or do they say "We saved your life for free but we want 1000-00 euros for the boat"
If they do say that, then saying that the life saving service is for free is just a mild form of "con "

As for suggesting engine failure is not a valid reason for calling a lifeboat ( let's face it you would not know what other service to call in a foreign land) just try getting into Boulogne at night when single handed without an engine in light airs.
(In my case I did think about sailing into the harbour & running aground on the bank & sorting the net but i discounted that as I thought the problem was more severe & wanted access to more approachable people)

If I deem my or my crews' lives are at stake I am not going to worry about 1000 € (though I might moan later). However, a fouled prop or dead engine without a lee shore or other danger is just an inconvenience, a bit like a flat tyre on a car. The choices are there - sail on, anchor and fix it, call a friend or pay for a commercial tow. There is no imperative to enter Boulogne so if that is your solution, pay for it.

 

[jerrytug]

If I deem my or my crews' lives are at stake I am not going to worry about 1000 € (though I might moan later). However, a fouled prop or dead engine without a lee shore or other danger is just an inconvenience, a bit like a flat tyre on a car. The choices are there - sail on, anchor and fix it, call a friend or pay for a commercial tow. There is no imperative to enter Boulogne so if that is your solution, pay for it.

Yes, people should always plan for 'what if', and that definitely includes a rope round the prop entering a commercial harbour.

However, if it was at, for example, Dover, you could call Port Control and they would send a launch out to tow you in, manned by cheery fellows, and the bill would be a hundred bucks or less, instead of the vast sums demanded by the French.

In fact, 'towing-in' services with contact details etc, should be listed somewhere for every significant port, in some cases like Dover it might be the harbour authority launch, in other cases it might be old one-eyed Fergus who's always pottering about in his fishing boat and like to earn a bit of cash.

Why don't forumites compile a useful list?

 

[alant]

Some of you may be aware of the thread concerning the RNLI accounts
A lot of sniping is going on but one post raised my concerns

It appears that a British couple rescued by the French in the Rade De Brest were treated rather badly
Now I have no idea of the circumstances or truth in the actual post
But it does get me wondering about the French rescue services & how they treat those assisted
In this country , if I was in genuine need of assistance i would have no qualms about accepting help from the RNLI
But what if I was in France. Would I get a massive bill. i did read about someone being charged £ 10,000-00 for a simple tow in but this could have been more hearsay than anything else

Has anyone reading this had first hand experience & what was the outcome

http://www.tribord.com/en/sailing/m...nch-lifeboats-service-snsm-to-amateur-sailors

They are 'life savers', not boat savers.
They have their priorities right.

 

[prv]

Perhaps they say "We'll take you ashore in the lifeboat for free, but if you want us to save your boat as well there will be a charge".

As I understand it, the US Coastguard approach is to say "we will take you ashore in our boat, but we will not recover your boat under any circumstances". The expectation is that if you call the Coastguard for a rescue, you will lose your boat. This is deliberate in order to discourage unnecessary callouts.

Pete

 

[jerrytug]

As I understand it, the US Coastguard approach is to say "we will take you ashore in our boat, but we will not recover your boat under any circumstances". The expectation is that if you call the Coastguard for a rescue, you will lose your boat. This is deliberate in order to discourage unnecessary callouts.

Pete

If the RNLI did that, you'd be able to walk across the Solent on the abandoned AWB's with blocked fuel filters

 

[prv]

If the RNLI did that, you'd be able to walk across the Solent on the abandoned AWB's with blocked fuel filters

American inshore sailors are no more competent - they just all have subscriptions to commercial tow / repair companies.

Pete

 

[Roberto]

On the VHF, I listened to a significant number of cases where the SNSM intervened. Life rescue is always free of any charge, as to rescuing boats, there is no hard and fast rule.

Most times, the MRCC/CROSS will assess the situation on the radio and relay a VHF Mayday/PanPan, depending on the case.
In case of Mayday, the cavalry is sent, SNSM, helicopters, gendarmerie units, etc etc: of course the utmost priority is to save lives, if they can they later do their best to save the boat too, for example in one case they sent the helicopter with a high volume pump to try and save a boat; personally I have never heard of compensation being asked in those cases, but it may be possible.

In case of panpan, whoever is going to help (be it the snsm, a nearby fishing or leisure vessel, etc) will get in touch with the MRCC. If it is deemed that a compensation will be necessary, they ask the owner if he agrees.

I may be wrong, but I tend to think the case described above (a very seasick singlehander in a delicate situation), even when technically still a panpan, would be treated with a lot of understanding..

On the other hand, as to the motorboat running out of fuel on a peaceful day... should it want a tow it would surely be charged, but will be told beforehand.

As John-Sybarite said, the hourly fees are fixed and related to the unit being used, I seem to remember the biggest snsm boat charges a few hundred euro per hour (I have a 450ish or 750ish figure in mind, sorry cannot be more precise).

 

[duncanmack]

"Robin" had occasion to be towed a few years back having had a problem just after transiting the Raz de Sein. If you have a look...?


Found it



We have been through the Raz 44 times now and at all stages of tide, strong winds, light winds, big swells, no swells, day or night, clear visibility and thick fog. In our early days, Westerly 33 Ketch, flat calm but a swell running, northbound with no wind and we lost our sprayhood to a big green one over the deck, just the one and it came from nowhere, but ended up down SWMBO's neck down below.. Then two years ago in our SL41 we were headed south through with about 2 hrs of tide to run when the remains of the wind vanished totally just on our approach wpt. Turned on our ever reliable Yanmar and 5 minutes later the alarms (oil or water?) were going, turned out to be ALL the freshwater coolant dumped in the bilges. Went through on the tide, no steerage, SWMBO on the wheel me trying to sort the engine, swells rolling any hint of wind out of the sails. Then the tide turns north and this time towards those reefs and rocks not away like going south, no wind, still big swells and too deep to anchor, we have about 30 minutes I reckoned. So we asked for a tow clear, CG gets a fishing boat to us who tows us out of the really fast tide, then hands us over to French Lifeboat (BIG one) out of Audierne, first we knew about it and we hadn't asked for it. Anyway, very nice people on the lifeboat towed us into Audierne 8 mls away and even called an engineer for us to meet us on arrival. Engineers bill 50 euros, lifeboat tow 850 euros, embarassment priceless..

There is a French saying about the Raz that translates roughly to 'nobody passes without fear or sorrow', that says it all.

Last edited by Robin; 07-10-10 at 10:13.

 

[charles_reed]

"Robin" had occasion to be towed a few years back having had a problem just after transiting the Raz de Sein. If you have a look...?


Found it



We have been through the Raz 44 times now and at all stages of tide, strong winds, light winds, big swells, no swells, day or night, clear visibility and thick fog. In our early days, Westerly 33 Ketch, flat calm but a swell running, northbound with no wind and we lost our sprayhood to a big green one over the deck, just the one and it came from nowhere, but ended up down SWMBO's neck down below.. Then two years ago in our SL41 we were headed south through with about 2 hrs of tide to run when the remains of the wind vanished totally just on our approach wpt. Turned on our ever reliable Yanmar and 5 minutes later the alarms (oil or water?) were going, turned out to be ALL the freshwater coolant dumped in the bilges. Went through on the tide, no steerage, SWMBO on the wheel me trying to sort the engine, swells rolling any hint of wind out of the sails. Then the tide turns north and this time towards those reefs and rocks not away like going south, no wind, still big swells and too deep to anchor, we have about 30 minutes I reckoned. So we asked for a tow clear, CG gets a fishing boat to us who tows us out of the really fast tide, then hands us over to French Lifeboat (BIG one) out of Audierne, first we knew about it and we hadn't asked for it. Anyway, very nice people on the lifeboat towed us into Audierne 8 mls away and even called an engineer for us to meet us on arrival. Engineers bill 50 euros, lifeboat tow 850 euros, embarassment priceless..

There is a French saying about the Raz that translates roughly to 'nobody passes without fear or sorrow', that says it all.

Last edited by Robin; 07-10-10 at 10:13.

Similar happened to me in 1993, the 2gm blew its head gasket 90' before HW and 5 miles from the Raz proper - no wind, so I sailed out the 23nm S of the Chaussee, back again into the Iroise under spinnaker and nearly lost it all at the beginning of the Four as the tide turned again. The local SNM came out and kindly towed me the 1/2 mile into le Conquet and deposited me on one of the FV moorings.
No request from me but one of the coastwatch had seen what was happening. No charge but we did have a party at the Bretagne (not the 1st occasion of an interesting shindig there). The cox reckoned I could have caught the counter-current through, close to la Veille and dropped the hook in the baie des Trépasses.
Like everyone else they're full of the milk of human kindness for real sailors, but will fleece the incompetent.
On that occasion @ 02:00 my wife enquired of God, why she was there? to her surprise she was answered - over the loudhailer.
The cost/hr for the big offshore boat was FF12,000 (€1900), I guess it's double that now, so if unless certain that life or vessel safety is endangered don't call out CROSS.
On the other hand the occasion I put out a Pan-Pan to CROSSCorsen (no mast and a 1 tonne polybag round the screw) in a tramonatana off Cap Bear, it tokk them 23' to acknowledge, by which time I'd made my own arrangements (though with brown trousers) to get myself to Port Argeles. Amazing what a 3.5 Tohatsu can do in the hands of a terrified mariner, even in a seastate 6 and a Beaufort 7.

 

[Robin]

"Robin" had occasion to be towed a few years back having had a problem just after transiting the Raz de Sein. If you have a look...?


Found it



We have been through the Raz 44 times now and at all stages of tide, strong winds, light winds, big swells, no swells, day or night, clear visibility and thick fog. In our early days, Westerly 33 Ketch, flat calm but a swell running, northbound with no wind and we lost our sprayhood to a big green one over the deck, just the one and it came from nowhere, but ended up down SWMBO's neck down below.. Then two years ago in our SL41 we were headed south through with about 2 hrs of tide to run when the remains of the wind vanished totally just on our approach wpt. Turned on our ever reliable Yanmar and 5 minutes later the alarms (oil or water?) were going, turned out to be ALL the freshwater coolant dumped in the bilges. Went through on the tide, no steerage, SWMBO on the wheel me trying to sort the engine, swells rolling any hint of wind out of the sails. Then the tide turns north and this time towards those reefs and rocks not away like going south, no wind, still big swells and too deep to anchor, we have about 30 minutes I reckoned. So we asked for a tow clear, CG gets a fishing boat to us who tows us out of the really fast tide, then hands us over to French Lifeboat (BIG one) out of Audierne, first we knew about it and we hadn't asked for it. Anyway, very nice people on the lifeboat towed us into Audierne 8 mls away and even called an engineer for us to meet us on arrival. Engineers bill 50 euros, lifeboat tow 850 euros, embarassment priceless..

There is a French saying about the Raz that translates roughly to 'nobody passes without fear or sorrow', that says it all.

Last edited by Robin; 07-10-10 at 10:13.

They charged us 850 euros which we paid on our return to the UK some weeks later. Our lives were not in immediate danger, but if the first tow had been unavailable when it was then they would have been. We had a boat that would ordinarily sail in the very lightest of winds but there was none at all and a big swell, we could have been dropped off tow before the lifeboat took over and just drifted there ( by then away from the rocks) until a breeze arrived but the CG and fishing boat between them had arranged for Audierne lifeboat to take over and tow us into harbour, done without even asking us first, so it might have been churlish to disagree. We were appreciative of the tow, especially from the fishing boat who ,as they went on their way, hadgained nothing from us except our shouted waves/thanks, The lifeboat crew, however, earned a bottle of verygood Scotch and some lunch eatable goodies and wine when were were tied alongside them on a buoy in the St Evette anchorage outside Audierne awaiting enough depth to enter and go up to the town marina. The problem with differentiating between saving peeps for free but not property, which is chargeable is that peeps might delay asking for timely assistance to avoid potential fees until the situation then becomes a danger to both rescuers and rescued.

I am very grateful to the very amiable bunch of guys on the French lifeboat, still feel guilty that we were unable to properly thank the fishing boat crew, and am even more appreciative of the RNLI not that we ever needed to request their assistance in over 50 years afloat.