French port info, please..

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Pearson_424

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I'd like to collect information on cruising sailors' experiences with Customs (Douan) officials in French ports and would welcome anyone to post their answers to these simple questions below in this thread:

For French ports WHERE YOU WERE BOARDED (or where you otherwise had formal contact with Douan officials): 1. Which port(s)? 2. When? 3. What if any issues were raised by the Douan official(s)?

(The purpose of my inquiry is this: We are currently compliant with the EU mandate that our boat may not be inside the EU continuously for more than 18 months without being liable for VAT. E.g. we cruised a bit of Norway this summer. However, the N and W coasts of France generate many rumors among non-EU boats about applying a 6-month guideline or otherwise posing problems for boats who are nonetheless compliant with the EU rule. I realize this is principally a British BB while I'm a non-EU yachtsman and so your issues may differ from mine, but I suspect that ports which are problematic for you might also be so for me.)

All reports are welcome. Many thanks.

Jack Tyler
WHOOSH, lying St. Kat's Haven, London

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we were boarded by 4 armed douaniers in boulogne november 2002. they studied all the ship's papers in detail, opened a few compartments, queried the 50 gallons of red diesel in cans in the cockpit, studied my passage charts and asked about my trip (recently back from transatlantic passage).

the papers included a british cert of registration so the issue of staying in the EC didn't arise.

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I can see where you are coming from but it isn't that simple as being related to specific ports. We have been boarded at sea north of Cherbourg (outside the 12 mile limit I might add), in Cherbourg marina, at anchor in Isle De Glenans, at anchor in an otherwise deserted bay on Belle Isle (2 years running), in Port Haliguen, Quiberon and whilst anchored off Isle De Houat (twice). Friends were boarded just south of Alderney Race and closer to Alderney than to the French coast. In South Britanny especially there are large patrol vessels always on watch, often anchored up too whilst their RIB(s) patrol less accessible spots the big vessel cannot reach.

However irritating it might be it is best to just be polite and answer their questions, we have never found them to be any problem doing that. We do know of others who found them much more officious, in response to the 'I know my rights' type response and they definitely don't have a sense of humour in case anyone thinks a bunch of armed Douaniers is worth trying out a joke about drugs....

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>
 
Boarded twice. Both in St. Vasst La Hogue. August 2003 and July 2002. They only wanted to see SSR certificate (Poor man's British Registry) and passports. A neighbouring yachtsman was marched off to the bank to get €150 for a fine because he only had a photocopy of his SSR.

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Boarded twice in recent years, once at Belle Ile where they asked particularly about our VAT position, once at Calais where we were stopped by an armed patrol in a RIB on entering. I suspect the issue there was smuggling or possibly boat theft, though nothing was said. Also spoken to once during a visit to Boulogne but they didn't go aboard. On all occasions I was asked for my SSR registration document and passports but nothing else, and on no occasion were we searched.
 
We sailed extensively along the Normandy and Brittany coast last year and were boarded 3 times.

They were definitley only interested in red ensigns and on two occasions were were present when the skipper of another yacht was marched off to the local cop shop.

I'd say don't mess with the douanes.

Magic

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://practical-business.co.uk>Click for website!</A>
 
Boarded in Roscoff in 2002.

I think they more interested in finding immigrants than checking our papers.

Asked where we had come from and how far south we had been.

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Never been boarded in 17 years.

Nicholas Hill

[urk]www.channelpilot.info[/url]

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There seems to be a remarkable disparity between Robin - who seems to have spent half his life with les douanes - and some who've never been boarded. Is this because Robin is particularly dodgy-looking /forums/images/icons/blush.gif or that he has spent many years in France or pure bad luck ?

Someone else mentions the interest in red ensigns - does this mean that other non-French boats are left in peace and its purely the "entente cordiale" ?!

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is a sailor who now believes it will _always_ rain
 
Last year we were boarded at Camaret and then again later that cruise but I can't remember where. We had paid a lot of attention to putting together a file of ships paper and Customs were nothing other then polite and efficient.

Always offer a cup of coffee which without fail they will not accept but it sets the right tone. Asked for a "fiche" which we received and showed to the next boarding party and consequently they went away very quickly.

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Very dodgy looking

Not someone to meet on a dark dirty night!/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif Our boardings have been over a number of years and a lot of miles sailed, prior to the end of proper duty free the weekender shopping trip was 7 or 8 times a year. Nowadays we can bring it all back in one hit but we still spend the whole of August there, plus another 2 or 3 weekends and a week at Spring Bank Holiday so we are season ticket holders.

There are ways of attracting their attention we have found out however:-

Part 1 Registry. So we don't have an SSR No visible on the outside. We have noticed in Cherbourg that they walk past boats with SSRs and call on those without, they are looking for an un-registered boat (instant fine)

Looking at them, especially with binoculars. I was scanning the anchorage off Houat for some friend's boat and panned across the Douane's little mobo lookalike, over came the RIB. I was looking at a big grey thing with the binos off Glenans wondering what the Navy....oh s##t it is customs, over came the RIB.

Being anchored in a remote place. They send the RIB out I think looking around the nooks and crannies, the one that we saw off Belle Isle one year was there again (7.30am, we were still in bed when they climbed in the cockpit) the following year - he remarked that the 'Fiche' I asked him for last time was still in the Reg Book!

As someone else has said it is best to be prepared and have everything ready. We have all the papers (Registration, Proof of VAT, Passports, Insurance, Radio Licences, ICC, Liferaft Cert etc) all together in one easy access file, even though they may not be interested in some of them. They have twice asked to see our Ship's Log, presumably to get an idea of where we have come from, so harbour receipts are worth keeping to prove you were in Cafe De Paris and not crossing Biscay with half a dozen Alky Eders and a bilge full of happy pills. Mostly it is a few minutes only, once like the occasion outside of French waters off Cherbourg it was 45 minutes and they were radioing details of our passports back via the grey gunship to Paris for checking as well as going through lockers, fridge etc - despite them having seen and waved at us in Cherbourg earlier that morning as they passed us on our way out!
We have also always offered them a coffee or tea, refused every time except by the lone guy in Port Haliguen who drank half a bottle of Scotch and stayed 3 hours talking about anything and nothing! We met a Brit one that had a liking for Scotch too come to think of it. as well.

The reason they leave the French alone mostly is they are looking for unregistered boats or boats registered as Brits that are really tax/regulation dodging Frogs as well as boats on charter that shouldn't be.


<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>
 
Re: Very dodgy looking

Je ne comprends pas. As it happens we are SSRed, but I thought it had no legal standing in the UK, let alone abroad. Can French authorities fine UK boats for not being SSRed?

Better not tell Gordon!

<hr width=100% size=1>I had a very nice link until Kim told us off about it. I'm not bitter mind.
 
Re: Very dodgy looking

Absolutely and they frequently do fine Brits! This was I believe the original reason the SSR scheme came into being, the French implemented OUR UK rules that said all vessels going 'foreign' should be registered and Part 1 (Blue Book) Registry was long winded and costly to do especially after several ownership changes over the life of a boat.

As far as other regulations are concerned whilst in France all Brit boats need do is meet our own regs, which are none for private vessels under (I think) 15m. That doesn't stop over zealous French Jobsworths from fining owners for out of date liferaft certificates (whereas we are not obliged to even HAVE a liferaft), out of date or insufficient flares and anything else they might dream up, none of which they can legally do. Unfortunately you have to pay up to escape and claim back later - good luck! I believe these incidents probably all relate to someone standing on his rights instead of being polite and saying yes Sir no Sir of course Sir with a smile!

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>
 
I was boarded in Boulogne and found that we had brought an expired Registry Certificate with us. We had been cruising for 5 months and this was the first time we were asked for it (Norway is a lot more relaxed than France).

I was marched off to get cash from a Hole inthe Wall and our mistake (the valid one was in the safe at home) cost us 150 Euros.

They were polite and efficient and I can have no complaint.

Also boarded in Cherbourg years ago and in Ireland where everyone is watched rather carefully.

I have also been boarded in Dartmouth, filmed crossing the TSS near Calais and quizzed but not boarded mid channel on two occasions by British customs.



<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by LaurenceK on 09/12/2004 16:11 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
Re: Very dodgy looking

Another funny story: Italian boats under 10m are not required to be registered, so the owner has no official papers to show, and quite a few have a berth in south of france marinas.

This year, for the first time, French douanes and affaires maritimes began to inspect all such vessels: "Monsieur, you have no proof of property over your vessel, you cannot prove the boat is Italian (hence subject to Italian law -->no registration under 10m)" bit like calling someone a pirate: immediate fine, and threat of boat being seized if caught for the second time.

South Corsica officials have been less strict, somewhat pushed by local economy exponents, whose business grows x4 x5 thanks to Italian boats in summer, but still, many boats had to be left in the marina.

To day, I am not sure an agreement has yet been found.



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Boarded
July 97 by British customs armed with automatic weapons of Dartmouth on passage from Rotterdam.
June 2003 British customs in Helford
Aug 2002 French in Lorient
April 2003 French in Lorient again.

All were nice and easy - though the UK customs off Dartmouth gave us a hell of a fright as they boarded unseen over the stern and were armed. As soon as they saw the Children on board they back off and got back on their rib. They then departed with a cheery wave. Mistaken identity????

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Les Douaniers

I used to drink with a number of them in la Rochelle. The stories they told were fairly eyebrow raising.

They have a league table of which centre catches the greatest number of offenders, and the on-the-spot fines have a % kept which is divvied out to the members of the centre every New Year.

You would do well to keep away from the centres, Dunkirk, Boulogne, l'Havre Camaret etc. It's in those that they have the most spot inspections.

However all boat movements go back into a central computer and it is virtually impossible not to get recorded on there so any hope of confusing the count-down is remote.

In fact you're more likely to have a sympathetic reception if you report yourself to the Douaniers, and co-operate rather than try and obfuscate the situation. They have considerable powers and don't hesitate to use them on anyone who, in their eyes, are trying to play them for fools.

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unregistered boats

especially if they're flying the ensign of an EU country are liable to instant impounding - and incidentally they won't recognise a Lloyds registration as poor old Willem van de Broek found out.
He got off with a €650 fine.

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Re: unregistered boats

Hell's bells. You guys are putting me right off!

<hr width=100% size=1>I had a very nice link until Kim told us off about it. I'm not bitter mind.
 
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