French boat registration

[Roberto]

Gents - sorry, I have asked for a copy of the "acte de Francisation" and been sent a "certificat d enregistrement dun navire de plaisance a useage personnel et a usage de formation" can someone please advise if this is the same thing ? (I assume not) and more importantly if it proves ownership and tax has been paid ?

First question: yes, it proves ownership. The acte de francisation has been replaced by this certificat d'enregistrement a few years ago. Older actes de francisation remain valid, owners can ask for their new certificat d'enregistrement, or they are automatically issued when there are changes in the legal position of boat (sale, etc).
Second question more nuanced: the acte de francisation was issued by Douanes/Finances Ministry, which is also the authority who collects VAT, so the document was valid as proof. The certificat d'enregistrement is issued by another Ministry (probably named "Mer"?, they change name with every government), in principle it is issued only after having paid VAT, but the appropriate document proving VAT position is "Quitus Fiscal" (also "certificat fiscal"), issued by the Finances Ministry. With the number on the Certificat d'enregistrement you may ask a "quitus fiscal" with this procedure:
Vous êtes un particulier et vous souhaitez obtenir un quitus fiscal

 

[Tispkj]

Thanks guys Im looking at 2 boats, one sent me as discussed above an acte de francisation dated august 21, issued by the Bureau des douanes - the other the certificate d enregistrement dated feb 22, issued by the Ministere de la mer.


I just need to ensure I am getting the correct document which will in the future prove vat had previously been paid in France (EU)

 

[owen-cox]

Hi,
I'm in the process of purchasing a yacht in France. I also have a Brexit carte de séjour. Can you confirm that you were finally able to register your boat in France?
Thanks

I bought a french flagged boat but also have a pre brexit carte de sejour and its specifically worded in the law for registration of yachts that anoyone with an article 50 carte de sejour can own and register a boat in france. unfortunately non EU citizens without an article 50 carte de sejour cannot. so you should be fine.

 

[Laser310]

So, if a person does not have the brexit carte de sejour, could they obtain french registration by setting up a french company to own the boat?

 

[Bouba]

So, if a person does not have the brexit carte de sejour, could they obtain french registration by setting up a french company to own the boat?

I believe you can...and I believe it’s legal....but, and do not ask me how I know this....the French taxman does not like it...and they can put the fear of G*d in you

 

[owen-cox]

So, if a person does not have the brexit carte de sejour, could they obtain french registration by setting up a french company to own the boat?

I believe its possible to buy with a Societe civile immobiliere (SCI) although I am not 100% sure of this. I have heard of people doing it for motorhomes etc. for americans.

 

[Laser310]

the French taxman does not like it...and they can put the fear of G*d in you

what don't they like?

I should add that the boat will be VAT paid in France.

 

[westernman]

what don't they like?

I should add that the boat will be VAT paid in France.

You can do a LOA. Basically have a long term rental contract for the boat and pay a final amount at the end of the rental period.
This final amount is subject to VAT at 20%. The rental contract is subject to 20% VAT on the payments for the time that the boat is in the EU and 0% when outside the EU. After you pay the final amount the boat is 100% yours and is EU VAT paid.

Similar schemes exist in Malta and other countries. Basically you can reduce the amount of VAT you pay when essentially taking out a loan to buy the boat.

It was more interesting before. You paid only 10% on the rental for boats less than 15m - it kind of being automatically assumed that 50% of the time it was out of the country.

AIS records count as irrefutable proof.

 

[Laser310]

Similar schemes exist in Malta and other countries. Basically you can reduce the amount of VAT you pay when essentially taking out a loan to buy the boat.

Sorry - I wasn't clear.

the boat is already VAT paid, and there will be no loan. It's a brokerage boat that I am making an offer on.

I just want a way to register in in France - at least I think I do...

Cruising Grounds will primarily be the Atlantic coast of France

 

[westernman]

Sorry - I wasn't clear.

the boat is already VAT paid, and there will be no loan. It's a brokerage boat that I am making an offer on.

I just want a way to register in in France - at least I think I do...

Cruising Grounds will primarily be the Atlantic coast of France

You need to be resident in France.

Sometimes boats are sold with the LOA already in place which can be taken over. I am not sure it is interesting to do.

 

[Laser310]

You need to be resident in France.

even if the boat is owned by a company?

 

[westernman]

even if the boat is owned by a company?

I think you might need to be resident in France to create a company. At least this web site says that.

Qui a le droit de créer une entreprise en France ?

Toute personne, qu’elle soit ressortissante de l’Union européenne, de l’EEE ou de pays tiers, peut créer une entreprise en France, sous réserve de remplir les conditions de résidence et d’obtention des titres de séjour adéquats.

 

[Tispkj]

Hi Guys, thanks again for all the help and advice on this, just to follow up on the story I am now the proud owner of a boat in the med.
The seller was more than happy to help me with any documents I needed to ensure a smooth sale.

I have a copy of the Act De Vent D'un Navire De Plaisance - from the 2 to 3 owner (Bill of Sale)
I have a copy of the Certificate D'enregitrement D' Un Navire De Plaisance A Usage Personnel - from seller. (Ownership Document)
I have a copy of Etat CertifieD'Inscriptions Dhypoteque Maritime (Proof of no outstanding finance)
I have the Act De Vent D'un Navire De Plaisance (Bill of Sale)
Once I had closed the deal following a survey the previous owner deregistered the boat from France, Certificate de radiation Du Pavillon Francais D'un Navire de Plaisance. (took approx 3 weeks)
I then Registered the boat via part 3 of the SSR in the UK (took only 2 days and was actually registered prior to officially being deregistered fr)

With regards to the 90 days, I will at some point apply for a long stay visa which seems the best way forward.
The 90 days for those that dont know is actually a rolling 90 days within a 180 day window (just to complicate things) so you can not stay in France (EU) for longer than 90 days in 180 days so you need to count back how much time you have spent in the EU in the last 180 days to calculate how much time you have left to use. ( I hope thats correct and clear)
So for me if I started at zero I could actually spend up to 15 days a Month in the EU forever, which I think currently suits us just fine anyway.

Again thanks to all and hope this helps others in the future.