Fowey charging Canoes and Boards a fee

[Capt Popeye]

Might like to mention that the Fowey Harbour are going to charge a Fee to Canoeists and Boarders that use the Harbour ; its stated that they , the Harbour Authority , will issue a 'sticker' identitying the Craft / Owner , so that if /when pieces of Craft turn up on the Beaches etc they can quickly identify the Owners and contact them in order to make sure Owner is OK etc and that the Lifeguards etc need not be allerted unnecessarily ;

God idea I guess , for safety reasons etc ; might ask if 'Jet Skis' are already Registered and paying a fee ?

 

[LittleSister]

I can understand why they want to do it, but I think the justification you say they have given is very unconvincing.

I wonder how much time they have spent over the last few years searching for the owners of unaccompanied craft found on beaches, and what they plan to do differently in future if a craft, or piece of a craft, found doesn't have a sticker on it.

 

[Stemar]

Giving out a sticker could be useful for search and rescue purposes, but charging just means folk will go elsewhere where they can launch for free.

 

[Neeves]

Giving out a sticker could be useful for search and rescue purposes, but charging just means folk will go elsewhere where they can launch for free.

Maybe that is part of the thought process. People who canoe or use Jet Skis are a cost, the owners of such craft are law abiding citizens and put their litter in the bin, who pays for the bins to be emptied (the local residents). Where do the locals park their cars - when the spaces are taken up by visitors making the most of the water.

Jonathan

 

[chrishscorp]

There have been a number of boards and at least 1 jetski (in 2020 ? ) that were found afloat last year with no accompanying human if they have no ID sticker or mobile phone number marked on them it makes it impossible to trace the owner to ensure they are safe the RNLI are then involved looking for someone who invariably ends up being safe ashore. As for being charged a fee well we are all charged for using harbours and as we all know they have to be maintained and cleaned, it may only be a paddle board but they will produce same amount of rubbish and same carparking pressures you or I would

 

[Bobc]

If their concern was purely safety, why charge a fee? I smell BS.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

A campaign through the appropriate magazines / website / BCU, etc, detailing the scale of the problem and encouraging people to write their contact number in permanent marker on their kit would address the safety issue.

They're charging these people because they can. It's purely revenue. There are undoubtedly costs involved with people enjoying the coast / harbours / beaches, etc, but most of these people are regular trippers, not boat owners, but the only 'acceptable' target for the levies are boatowners. Somewhere like Chichester Harbour is enjoyed by walkers, cyclists, birdwatchers, picnic-ers, beach goers, photographers, runners as well as boaters, all who impact on the maintenance costs, but it's only the boaters who are taxed. The same could be said of the inland waterways where the boaters bear the costs, despite comprising the minority of 'users'.

This is not a 'woe is us' type rant, but simply a recognition that whilst enjoying the outdoors has huge benefits for a vast number of people in the country, which in turn clearly puts it under pressure, the cost of managing this and maintaining the 'infrastructure' has to be levied more fairly than it only falling on those people who own 'something' that can have a sticker attached. It's time we explored a 'bed tax' (taxe de séjour) where a certain percentage of the cost of hotel beds, Air B&Bs, campsites, marina fees, etc goes to the local tourist industry to mitigate the costs incurred from the tourist numbers. In the Lake District, the local authority expects all the costs of 'managing' Windermere to be borne by the boaters, but those who walk, ride and sit around its edges (as well as on the thousands of eroded miles of paths throughout the Park) are required to contribute nothing.

Bed Tax Now!

 

[jdc]

I'm out on the R Fowey several times a week - I was at 8am this very morning (rowing rather than sailing) - and have to say that I do find abandoned or adrift craft several times a year. A couple of weeks ago I found a canoe on a beach where there's no shore access due to the railway line, so was someone in trouble? I couldn't say, nor did I know whom to contact.

Nine months ago I found a rubber dinghy aground on a mud bank about 1/2 way between Loswithiel and St Winnow, without 'TT Wanderlust' or any other useful ID, but with an East coast yacht club sticker so probably it had come adrift (or been stolen) from a visiting yacht. I backed down to it and towed it with my single scull (using my Ron Hill leggings as tow rope) to the boatyard at St Winnow, but it took ages and hurt my back, as well as compromising both my dignity and my modesty! Probably this one would never have had a contact number or registration but there is a slight issue on the Fowey due to the sheer numbers of visitors enjoying - and welcome to - our lovely river. Someone has to trace the owners of lost craft, presumably an employee of the HM, so fees are not, imho, mere exploitation but a consequence of fecklessness by a minority of owners and users.

Lest my recount of only two examples makes it seem that the problem is exaggerated, note that what one sees, or can do anything about from a rowing boat in the upper reaches during winter, is only a tiny percentage of incidents. Down near the town in summer there are several such every day.

BTW, by virtue of membership of the rowing club or adjacent canoe club we locals do pay an annual fee to Fowey Harbour for our rowing boats and canoes, but it's peanuts so I hardly feel out of pocket or ripped off. While a taxe de séjour isn't a bad idea in a high tourist area, in this particular case the problem is caused solely by users of boats, so this example isn't as clear cut as it is in the lakes.

 

[TwoFish]

It's time we explored a 'bed tax' (taxe de séjour) where a certain percentage of the cost of hotel beds, Air B&Bs, campsites, marina fees, etc goes to the local tourist industry to mitigate the costs incurred from the tourist numbers. In the Lake District, the local authority expects all the costs of 'managing' Windermere to be borne by the boaters, but those who walk, ride and sit around its edges (as well as on the thousands of eroded miles of paths throughout the Park) are required to contribute nothing.

Bed Tax Now!

Hmm. And do we think that new tax would:

(a) be used to fund reductions in oppresive taxation elsewhere? or

(b) be gobbled up by the taxing authority, perhaps to fund gold-plated pension entitlements for those they employ to administer and enforce bed taxes, canoe permits, stepping on the beach licences and the rest?

I don't know Fowey (aside from a bit of Day Skipper chartwork). However I'm guessing that most kayakers, paddleboarders etc. there aren't so much using the harbour facilities, but rather using a place where someone once built harbour facilites, initially to further their own commerce and which now remains to service the needs of a small fishing fleet and various boaty types. The paddlers may much prefer the harbour was left to nature. Is it right to tax them for the 'benefits' of a nuisance that has been imposed upon them?

Many paddlers, rubber dinghyinsts and such will also just be occasional visitors. Is it really practical to charge them? The small amounts involved may hardly justify the administration and anyway, the stupidities of the Covid regime have shown many of us just how tiresome a 'papers please' society is (though I admit there is a minority who find that sort of state control 'wet dream' territory). I suppose a day permit regime could be put in place, effectively restricting launching to office hours when the appropriate papers could be procured and stamped after queueing outside the Commissar's office. I don't want Britain to be that sort of place though.

Oh, and fixing stickers on (mostly) inflatable things isn't very practical, especially when the inflatable things may visit many different beaches, harbours and rivers over the course of a year. Work-arounds are possible of course. I do have a 'plaque' to cover my use of windsurf boards and paddleboards in Chichester Harbour, where the Conservancy has agreed it sensible to allow paddlers to laminate them and carry them on a lanyard, rather than fix them to boards. I could probably dodge that cost easily enough but actually I appreciate the work the Conservancy and harbour authorities do and I don't mind making a small contribution for my dinghy and my boards. However more generally, requiring local licences and permits for paddlers makes as much sense as the stupidities spouted by the "all bicycles should have licenses, insurance, number plates and MoTs" brigade (but that's another issue). Just leave 'em be.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Thank you for all posters making their comments ; appreciated

Might I ask , I recall seeing RNLI info posted where it stated that the majority of their Inshore Call Outs were for Swimmers , Kayakers , Canoeists , inflateable Boats , Anglers , who got into trouble and someone raised the alarm so calling out the RNLI ?

So could it be that those mentioned above most probably pay little or nil towards the RNLI rescue services , so by comparison US who Boat most probably bear the brunt of funding for the RNLI , but probably need to call out the RNLI the least ?

If so true then I guess the Paddle Boarders and Canoeists can pay a suitable small registration fee as it evens up the Users vers the Contributers

For Holiday Providers in these areas I guess that they can easily add a fee to the Booking Forms so that any Holiday Booker can be made aware of the necessary fee in advance so start off with a Clean Slate on their adventures

 

[chrishscorp]

Oh, and fixing stickers on (mostly) inflatable things isn't very practical, especially when the inflatable things may visit many different beaches, harbours and rivers over the course of a year. Work-arounds are possible of course. I do have a 'plaque' to cover my use of windsurf boards and paddleboards in Chichester Harbour, where the Conservancy has agreed it sensible to allow paddlers to laminate them and carry them on a lanyard, rather than fix them to boards.

So you are a paddler ? you carry your details on a Lanyard, do you have any details/mobile number on your paddle board ?

 

[TwoFish]

Might I ask , I recall seeing RNLI info posted where it stated that the majority of their Inshore Call Outs were for Swimmers , Kayakers , Canoeists , inflateable Boats , Anglers , who got into trouble and someone raised the alarm so calling out the RNLI ?

So could it be that those mentioned above most probably pay little or nil towards the RNLI rescue services , so by comparison US who Boat most probably bear the brunt of funding for the RNLI , but probably need to call out the RNLI the least ?

If so true then I guess the Paddle Boarders and Canoeists can pay a suitable small registration fee as it evens up the Users vers the Contributers

For Holiday Providers in these areas I guess that they can easily add a fee to the Booking Forms so that any Holiday Booker can be made aware of the necessary fee in advance so start off with a Clean Slate on their adventures

If your goal is charging the end user and you have no regard for the administration, compliance and enforcement costs and burdens, or wider societal implications, that would be logical. If you do look at the full picture, it would still be pretty silly (in most places).

Oh and quite a lot of RNLI call-outs are to vulnerable people who either get into difficulty, are attemping a 'cry for help' or are actually intent on self-harm. How would you tax them?

I suspect most of us give willingly to the RNLI and neither begrudge that nor resent 'joe public' for not doing so (though actually it's often surprising how generous 'joe public' is there).

 

[TwoFish]

So you are a paddler ? you carry your details on a Lanyard, do you have any details/mobile number on your paddle board ?

I'm a windsurfer, paddle boarder, dinghy sailer and (occasional) yacht crew. There are no obvious contact details on my Chichester Harbour lanyard, but it could be traced to me by its serial number. However if it's found washed ashore or at sea, it will be attached to my corpse, so there will be little urgency. There are no details beyond serial number on my boards, but I sail in company and rest assured if any kit lost, I or my sailing companions would be immediately in touch with the Coastguard, and (where applicable) harbour authorities to help prevent any search and rescue operation. Oh, and to increase the chances of recovering my kit too. Lost equipment is also now widely publicised on social media so that other windurfers / paddlers are alert. I accept that's different circumstances from boards etc. that are often left unattended ashore, on boats and so on which could be lost for weeks / months before anyone notices. We certainly get a fair few of the latter where I live by the Thames.

 

[The Q]

Here in Norfolk We get a lot of walkers needing RNLI rescue, they get cut off by the tide on some of the beaches especially up Blakeney way. the RNLI have a hovercraft somewhere near Hunstanton there are so many of these idiots.

As for licencing on the broads, if it floats it needs a licence.. while there are registration stickers required, they gave up on tax discs when they had a batch that wasn't waterproof and all the print ran...

As for a bed tax, on the land accommodation, yep I'm for it.. The Broads Authority keep finding ways to take more money out of the navigation maintenance account for other things...

The Broads by the way are NOT a national park.

 

[Blue_mischief]

The Broads by the way are NOT a national park.

Better tell their website then. ?
Welcome to Visit the Broads National Park

 

[st599]

Oh, and fixing stickers on (mostly) inflatable things isn't very practical, especially when the inflatable things may visit many different beaches, harbours and rivers over the course of a year. Work-arounds are possible of course. I do have a 'plaque' to cover my use of windsurf boards and paddleboards in Chichester Harbour, where the Conservancy has agreed it sensible to allow paddlers to laminate them and carry them on a lanyard, rather than fix them to boards. I could probably dodge that cost easily enough but actually I appreciate the work the Conservancy and harbour authorities do and I don't mind making a small contribution for my dinghy and my boards. However more generally, requiring local licences and permits for paddlers makes as much sense as the stupidities spouted by the "all bicycles should have licenses, insurance, number plates and MoTs" brigade (but that's another issue). Just leave 'em be.

I think the main problem with Fowey, and other places on that coast are that it's a hilly fishing village, with hardly any parking. It gets overrun in summer and the locals don't want to pay for the piles of rubbish left behind.

Better tell their website then. ?
Welcome to Visit the Broads National Park

Broads National Park is the trademark of Broads Authority, but it isn't on the list of UK National Parks.

 

[Blue_mischief]

Broads National Park is the trademark of Broads Authority, but it isn't on the list of UK National Parks.

It‘s on this list
Parks - National Parks

Which list of yours is it not on? ?

(Sorry, I’m a bit stir crazy after days of gales and rain and at least another week of them to come. I think I need to go and lie down ?)

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Broads National Park is the trademark of Broads Authority, but it isn't on the list of UK National Parks.

Yes, they were allowed to use the term 'Nation Park' in order to help with their branding and marketing. But the Broads Authority doesn't share the same aims and objectives as the National Parks Authorities as uniquely they are charged with maintaining the rights of navigation on the Norfolk Broads. Rather important for us boaters and the reason they must continually be reminded of their responsibility in this respect as there are plenty of other interest groups who would like them to concentrate solely on the same tasks as the other 'National Parks'.

 

[The Q]

Yep the Broads Authority went to court to get permission to use the brand "National Park" which it was granted
"FOR ADVERTISING ONLY"
Which means the Blue signs they have put up round the area alongside the roads are illegal..
Because official advertising signs by the road side pointing to an attraction have to be brown..

All the national parks are governed by the Sandford Principle..

"Where irreconcilable conflicts exist between conservation and public enjoyment in National Parks, then conservation interest should take priority.”

and they have two aims..

• to preserve the countryside
• to promote the public's enjoyment of the area

The Norfolk and Suffolk Broads Act of Parliament has an extra aim which is to preserve the Navigation.
So it CANNOT, BY LAW be a National Park.

 

[FairweatherDave]

I understand the user pays principle. But I hate it being rammed in your face whatever you do. Paying for parking and all the ugly signage in previously free spots. (Ashdown forest). I love the romance of just turning up, slipping a kayak or SUP in the water and off you go. Hate the "worrying if I will be caught" feeling. I know they want to regulate EVERYTHING. I also know Fowey river is somewhat popular and parking in various spots difficult. But Cornwall has gone mad for tourist money. And tourists have gone mad for Cornwall. Wonder if I will have to pay at Easter ?