Forestay unwrapping

[sailoppopotamus]

My boat's standing rigging is about 6 years old, replaced by previous owner. Boat has a Facnor SD130 furling system. I had a halyard wrap two years ago, which I took a winch to, but rigging was inspected by a professional immediately thereafter and was found to be ok. I've since learned to never take a winch to it, and a couple of times that I've noticed the halyard wrapping (both times dockside, hoisting the sail) I've just unrolled the sail, added some halyard tension, and rolled it back in. I've lifted a knowledgeable friend up the mast at least 3 times since, the most recent of which was 3 weeks ago, and he noticed nothing unusual.

We were out racing the other day in a good 30 knots and after the race I noticed my forestay looked somewhat S-shaped right below the disc-shaped halyard diverter (between that and the top swivel). Today I supported the mast with two halyards and sent my friend up. He said the forestay is wide open around 40cm from the top terminal. The wire unravels for a few centimeters, but the unravelling doesn't go all the way to the terminal.

The forestay is obviously getting replaced. My question is, what could have caused such a failure? These things usually fail at the terminals, no?

 

[Kelpie]

I would strongly suspect a halyard wrap as the culprit. You need to look at what's causing it to happen.
Well done for spotting the damage before anything serious happened!

 

[sailoppopotamus]

Halyard wrap makes sense, it just seems weird to me that it would show up 2 years and thousands of miles after my last serious halyard wrap. It's been inspected several times by different people since then. I'll replace the forestay, but unless I really know what caused this, I worry it might happen again.

The causes of the halyard wrap two years ago I think I understand. It's been on my todo list for a while, but I was planning on replacing the aging top swivel with a freshly rebuilt one literally this week. Since I'll now have to take down the whole forestay I'll also have a go at disassembling the drum and rebuilding that as well.

Funny thing is that I noticed the forestay was a little funny towards the end of the race. I thought it was a halyard wrap and thought we'll deal with it when the time comes to furl the genoa. But it was easy to furl, and the funny forestay shape was still there. So we must've sailed a good chunk of the race with the forestay in that state

 

[sailoppopotamus]

Another angle on this: So you had a halyard wrap, you took a winch to it, then inspected the rigging visually and found it to be sound. If that halyard wrap is indeed the reason my forestay failed two years later, I would argue that I was wrong to merely inspect it and should've outright replaced it without second thought.

 

[LittleSister]

the disc-shaped halyard diverter

The work of the devil, in my view. Replace it with a proper diverter fairlead fixed to the mast.

 

[Tranona]

The work of the devil, in my view. Replace it with a proper diverter fairlead fixed to the mast.

Second that although does not help explain the delay in showing signs of failure. It will though minimise or eliminate the possibility of wraps in the future.

 

[geem]

The forces needed to unwrap rigging wire are quite large. The only explanation is a very recent halyard wrap. It is possible you didn't notice it if furling in strong winds

 

[fredrussell]

Edit, erroneous question by me removed!

 

[vyv_cox]

I have the same furling system, with a disc diverter. Although I did not suffer halyard wrap I noticed increasing friction when furling. Investigation found the top swivel badly worn, with some missing balls. I replaced it, at eye-watering cost, since when no more problems.

The new swivel has a far superior design with sealed bearings but difficult to justify £500 a few years ago.

 

[Refueler]

Just out of interest, fractional or mast head rig? And keel or deck stepped mast? I’m curious as to what was holding your rig up after forestay failed. Would it be the combined strength of foils and furled sail?

I get impression from the opening post that the stay didn't break - it was unlaid causing the slack ...

To OP .... I would not fit a new stay till I know that the gear is serviced and functional. Personally I think your taking a winch to the furler was the start of slippery slope downhill.

 

[fredrussell]

I get impression from the opening post that the stay didn't break - it was unlaid causing the slack ...

Just re-read op and you’re right. I’ll edit my post.

 

[Refueler]

Just re-read op and you’re right. I’ll edit my post.

Must admit - title implies breakage ... post not.

 

[sailoppopotamus]

The forces needed to unwrap rigging wire are quite large. The only explanation is a very recent halyard wrap. It is possible you didn't notice it if furling in strong winds

Since the wrap two years ago I've religiously avoided putting the furling line on a winch. I've since discovered that life is much easier furling on a broad reach with the genoa blanketed by the main. So while what you say makes sense, I doubt that I'm strong enough to unwrap the wire by sheer muscle force without even noticing.

To clarify, the forestay is still in one piece but partly unravelled. I didn't mean to mislead with my title.

 

[vyv_cox]

To clarify, the forestay is still in one piece but partly unravelled. I didn't mean to mislead with my title.

Still a failure to my mind.

 

[geem]

Since the wrap two years ago I've religiously avoided putting the furling line on a winch. I've since discovered that life is much easier furling on a broad reach with the genoa blanketed by the main. So while what you say makes sense, I doubt that I'm strong enough to unwrap the wire by sheer muscle force without even noticing.

To clarify, the forestay is still in one piece but partly unravelled. I didn't mean to mislead with my title.

We un-wrapped the forestay many years ago due to a wrap. We didn't have a winch to furl with. It was pulled in by hand. It was a very breezy day going through some nasty overfalls. I think the bouncing through the overalls caused the wrap as the halyard bounced around whist furling. The forestay stayed up but very alarming

 

[sailoppopotamus]

I have the same furling system, with a disc diverter. Although I did not suffer halyard wrap I noticed increasing friction when furling. Investigation found the top swivel badly worn, with some missing balls. I replaced it, at eye-watering cost, since when no more problems.

The new swivel has a far superior design with sealed bearings but difficult to justify £500 a few years ago.

I agree the cost of a new swivel is exorbitant. I found a used replacement on ebay for £30 (the old unsealed design) and replaced the bearings and races. It should be as good as new, that is, not particularly good! My limited knowledge on the subject leads me to believe that the optimal design is unsealed torlon bearings, however I replaced mine with stainless as I wasn't confident in swapping out steel for torlon in a part originally designed with steel bearings in mind.

Just another thought I had: could this have been caused by the yard's crane? I wasn't present when they lifted the boat to put it back in the water, maybe they banged something? Yet there are no obvious signs of damage on the mast or aluminium foil.

 

[dac31]

I found I got halyard wrap when the forestay kinked from stepping the mast on a trailer sailor. Riving at it aggressively only made the kink worse. My solution is to remove the furling system and fit a second forestay in the future. I can't see how a single steel wire that keeps the mast up enclosed in a foil can provide any peace of mind.

 

[geem]

I found I got halyard wrap when the forestay kinked from stepping the mast on a trailer sailor. Riving at it aggressively only made the kink worse. My solution is to remove the furling system and fit a second forestay in the future. I can't see how a single steel wire that keeps the mast up enclosed in a foil can provide any peace of mind.

Why?

 

[dac31]

Why?

Physics. Wire breaks, mast comes down into the cockpit.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I had a halyard wrap due to leaving the spinnaker halyard slack after it being left up way too long in high winds and eventually blowing out. The halyard got wrapped in the Yankee and no amount of trying could free it eventually the wind did the job of ripping the sail and freeing it off which allowed the sail to be unfurled and dropped. We proceeded on staysail and eventually motor for a few days. when we examined the forestay it had unwound and there were sever broken wires. at the lower end going into the furler. A salutary and expensive lesson about avoiding wraps and not forcing things.