Ford diesel engine knocking problem

[Jcorstorphine]

I have a problem with my 1.6 Ford Diesel engine which has been lying dormant for a number of years until I started it some weeks ago. Before I started it, I primed the oil circuit using a vacuum pump to make sure that the oil pump was fully flooded. I then cranked the engine with the fuel valve solenoid disconnected to ensure that I could get oil pressure which was fine. I then started the engine which ran ok, however when I went back to start the engine today after a break of three weeks, the engine suddenly cut out. When I eventually got it restarted, the engine had developed an intermittent knocking noise.

My fist thought that it may have been a valve sticking so I removed the camshaft cover and then checked that all the valves followers were moving and that seemed ok.

Reading through the engine manual, it gives a faulty injector as a possible reason for a knocking noise. Any thoughts?

Regards

John

 

[tinkicker0]

You didn't say the model, but if its the 1.6 indirect injection or endura, I would have a look at the timimg belt. Rust on the belt sheaves may have stripped some teeth off the belt and caused the timing to slip.

If this had happened at higher revs it would have broken the cam into 3 pieces.

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Ford engine knocking

It is the old style Ford indirect injection circa 1987 (Fiesta type) I checked the cam belt and it is still tight. Mechanically, the engine looks OK as the camshaft area is fully flodded with oil, all the cam followers move up and down with no signs of sticking.

My concern is that if I start the engine again I may do some damage, if i dont, I will need to take the head off etc.

Regads

john

 

[omega2]

knocking

try cracking the pipes at the pump or injectors one at a time and note any drop in revs, this will point at the defective cylinder, then you can try exchanging that injector, and or valves/regrind.

 

[kenspratt]

Knocking Ford

If it is any help I have two ford 1.8 diesels. They are I understand similar. I am an expert now on what noises they make when they are broke . I had a knocking noise on one of mine. Had the Injectors out and tested. The nice man said one was a bit dirty and burning a bit lean (cue confused look from me) he asked me if it knocked. A good clean up later and the knock has gone. Definately change the cam belt as soon as possible and make sure there is none of the afore mentioned rust on the gears. If you want to know I can tell you what noise it makes if the belt breaks bending loads of valves and shearing the camshaft in the process. Sort of a very short sharp load bang followed by a few seconds silence culminating in very loud noises that could not be repeated on a public forum that children could read .

 

[tinkicker0]

Important to note that there are TWO belts on this engine. One for the cam etc and one for the fuel pump

 

[alb40]

Only 2 belts on 1.8 litre engines. 1.6 litre engines have just one belt for the camshaft. Injection pump is gear driven on these ones, and the cambelt goes from injection pump onto the camshaft.

No idea why they had to use two belts on the 1.8! 1.6 engines don't seem to be prone to belt failure, but i wouldnt want to reply on a old bit of rubber thans sat in the same position for a few years!

Knocking is likely to be an injector. I had this problem on an old 1.8 turbo diesel escort. It only used to do it when it was cold, when it was warm the noise went. Injector service and problem was solved.

 

[tinkicker0]

Really? I've wracked my brains and just can't remember that. Too much beer has pickled my brain in the intervening years, or i'm going senile.

Still it must be 20 years plus, since I last changed the belts on one and done probably 90 -100 1.8 belts since, so i'll forgive myself for the boob.

One belt it is then on the 1.6.

I stand corrected

 

[alb40]

Who knows why ford went to belts instead of gears for the 1.8! Cant be for noise reduction, the 1.8 always seemed to be a bit louder and no as smooth as the 1.6. I swapped a 1.6 for a 1.8 in a friends boat though and the 1.8 is noticably more pokey, albeit bit noisier!

At least if you do find further problems with your engine, it would be easy to swap for a 1.8 engine, which are easy to get hold of. Saying that, i would still be confident in it being a simple problem, i.e. injector. As others have said, crack each injector pipe in turn and identify the duff one.

The engines, apart from the rubber bits, are pretty hardy though. The turbo one in my car went round the clock twice before it was too rusty to warrant getting through an MOT. Other than belt changes and injectors, it was never touched apart from for oil changes.

 

[Transcur]

Most likley the injectors bit sticky. Lucas injectors are harder to come by. Bosch more common. Your local diesel service shop should be able to check them for very little expense. I have just had one (lucas)fully reconditioned after breaking the leak off pipe and it being under water 3 days!!

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Update on my knocking engine

Thanks to all who have replied, I have been down to the boat and checked a number of items such as the glow plugs, turned the engine by hand to feel for compression in all four cylinders and looked for any signs that the belt may have jumped but all seems OK. Ran the engine just to make sure the knocking was still there and it was!!!!! Other point is that the engine seems harder to start hence why I checked the glow plugs.

Omega2:- I was going to try the technique of cracking each injector one by one but the intermittent knocking noise was so bad I bottled out and have just taken out all four injectors to have them tested at the local diesel shop. Although I built the engine up mechanically 10 years ago it is 4 years since I eventuallu got it running and at that time the injectors were given a full stripdown and calibrated. However, the engine has not been run since then, having only been started up about 4 weeks ago.

Kenspratt:- I will be taking your advice about the cam belt as it is ten years since I initially built the engine from a pile of bits. When I set the engine up I used the existing belt which I was told was new BUT it is now ten years old and may have deteriorated with age.

Tinkicker0 :- On the old 1.6, the injection pump is gear driven with the camshaft being driven by a single belt. You mention having changed a significant number of 1.8 belts, did you always use a belt tension tool or just do it by feel. (I have heard that the tension is right if you can just twist the belt through 90 degrees in the middle of the longest run but that seems a bit iffy. For the life of me I cannot recall how I set it up the last time. In my case it is too much red wine causing memory loss.

Alb40:- I have heard that the old 1.6 was a bit more robust with the injection pump being gear driven. I loved your signature “One day, i'll have a boat that works” I can just relate to that. As you will see at the beginning of this post I have taken out all four injectors so hopefully the diesel shop will say they are sticking or dribbling.

Transcur:- Thanks for helping to confirm that the problem could be the injectors. Last night I felt I was looking a buying a complete new engine so here is hoping that the fault lies there.

Today, when I removed the injectors, I disconnected the power to the fuel solenoid and gave the engine a whirl on the starter and I cannot hear anything untoward but then there is no load. My biggest worry is that there is some mechanical damage such as a bent conrod or damaged piston.

If the injectors get a clean bill of health, then it looks like s strip down.

Regards
John

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Swap 1.6 for 1.8

Who knows why ford went to belts instead of gears for the 1.8! Cant be for noise reduction, the 1.8 always seemed to be a bit louder and no as smooth as the 1.6. I swapped a 1.6 for a 1.8 in a friends boat though and the 1.8 is noticably more pokey, albeit bit noisier!

At least if you do find further problems with your engine, it would be easy to swap for a 1.8 engine, which are easy to get hold of. Saying that, i would still be confident in it being a simple problem, i.e. injector. As others have said, crack each injector pipe in turn and identify the duff one.

The engines, apart from the rubber bits, are pretty hardy though. The turbo one in my car went round the clock twice before it was too rusty to warrant getting through an MOT. Other than belt changes and injectors, it was never touched apart from for oil changes.

That is a good point as all the marine bits on my engine such as the gearbox, manifold mounts are all brand new and never been run and if my engine is beyond repair, then that would be a good solution.

Regards

John

 

[lenseman]

Really? Too much beer has pickled my brain in the intervening years, or i'm going senile.

Senile??

When I get up in the morning. "Senility.com" loads 'high' into Upper Memory!!

I believe it is a TSR (Terminate, Stay Resident) type of program.

 

[sundancer9000]

ford engine

Ford engine.....................end of story........

 

[tinkicker0]

>>>Tinkicker0 :- On the old 1.6, the injection pump is gear driven with the camshaft being driven by a single belt. You mention having changed a significant number of 1.8 belts, did you always use a belt tension tool or just do it by feel. (I have heard that the tension is right if you can just twist the belt through 90 degrees in the middle of the longest run but that seems a bit iffy. For the life of me I cannot recall how I set it up the last time. In my case it is too much red wine causing memory loss. <<<<

1.8 diesel - spring loaded tensioner.

1.8 Endura Diesel, line up the arrows on the tensioner. Not worked on Fords since 1997 tho.

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Knocking problem solved ( I hope)

It looks as if it was the injectors or should I say one of them. When the guys at the diesel shop tested the four units. they found one was not sealing as there was a small bit of debris in the seat. Going down to the boat tomorrow to refit so here is hoping for a good result.

Once again thanks to all

John