For those that do not venture down into the lounge.

[Rum_Pirate]

 

[Neeves]

There is a contradiction here. Cartoons are meant to be humorous - this is real life and a common reaction.



Jonathan

 

[oldgit]

That will be 50 % extra each time you visit our marina ..................................Thank you ,Sir.

 

[Stemar]

Someone had a discussion with the berthing master about the supplement for his 28' cat. "But I'm only the same width as a 45' monohull, so why should I pay more?" "You're right, of course. I'll charge you the same as a 45 footer, if you like."

 

[steveallan]

That will be 50 % extra each time you visit our marina ..................................Thank you ,Sir.

Except when it's 75%

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Does a trimaran with its outer hulls folded in ( to 8’6” wide) attract the same extra surcharge percentage?

 

[oldgit]

Except when it's 75%

 

[Neeves]

That will be 50 % extra each time you visit our marina ..................................Thank you ,Sir.

Why do discussions on multi hulls revert to the costs of a marina. Don't you have swing moorings in the UK and have not learnt how to use anchors? This may explain why some people are bored with anchor threads - they have no interest and would rather read threads on marinas and worry about shore power and whether to run a dehumidifier.

Most of the time your yacht is in a marina you are not there, so little benefit for the you and the family. A cat is as safe on a swing mooring, correctly sized, as a monohull and for the weekends when you visit the yacht - what is wrong with a dinghy - in fact if you keep the yacht in a marina and don't use an anchor - why have the dinghy....?

Funny world

Jonathan

 

[Stemar]

In fact, a cat can be cheaper on a mooring than a deep fin monohull. Sitting on the mud for a couple of hours a day is no problem for them, and tidal moorings are cheaper than deep water ones.

 

[Neeves]

Its odd - sailing, specifically day sailing or cruising, is one of those sports or pastimes you do with a few, very few, close friends or family. I note from comment on this forum - many sail alone. Its the opposite of the companion ship of the pub. A swing mooring and anchoring simply extends that ability to be self reliant - to offer a genuine helping hand when needed but not to impose. Both anchoring and a swing mooring offer more egalitarian neighbours.

Nothing effete about the young couple who built their 20' yawl in their ground floor apartment and get out every weekend, or the slightly older couple who take their young boys out in a very seedy looking 24' yacht - and all enjoying every minute. They cannot afford the marina berth - but they use their modest craft more frequently than the marina dweller and hopefully are part of the future of sailing.

There must be Prouts or early generation Lagoons out there looking for new owners - forget the cost of the marina - many of us survive without using one.


With this in mind - the cartoon represents real life - its not a joke.

We don't need to go far to find isolation but with suburbia in the background full internet access, the ability to clean the props on a beach, no light pollution at night, no noisy neighbours.........and no high marina costs.

Just one facet - no wonder people, secretly, like catamarans




Jonathan

 

[Daydream believer]

Most of the time your yacht is in a marina you are not there, so little benefit for the you and the family. A cat is as safe on a swing mooring, correctly sized, as a monohull and for the weekends when you visit the yacht - what is wrong with a dinghy - in fact if you keep the yacht in a marina and don't use an anchor - why have the dinghy....?
Funny world

Actually being in a marina means that I AM there. I can wander down to the marina & sit on the boat & have a chat to the boat without worrying about getting the dinghy out, launching it, putting on wet gear & LJ, rowing out ( assuming it is not too rough,) climbing aboard, getting sea sick. then reversing the whole process. No fear of falling in, being less nimble at 75 years of age. It is one hell of a step up on to the deck. I certainly would not risk trying to get on at the stern.
Being in a marina means that I can converse with those around me, so has a social benefit. On a mooring one cannot do much other than shout to the next boat 50 yds away. Conversation can be limited somewhat.
We find on our moorings that the only cat (33 ft caravan) is a real pain, swinging about in the wind, rather than sitting in a nice line with the keel boats. So we put it at the end of the trots, farthest from the club. As for grounding; who wants to bang on a hard shingle shore with the boat scraping back & forth with wind over tide as the tide slowly recedes.
As for the Avon- Have only used mine on my yacht twice in 17 years. I keep it for my work launch, where I use it regularly.
The anchor-- about 4-5 times in the same period. Bit like the life raft. There for emergencies only.

 

[Daydream believer]

View attachment 132389

Cannot help wondering if he is there out of choice or his echo sounder has packed up.
Seems a bit pointless just stuck on the sand like that for hours on end.

 

[Neeves]

Cannot help wondering if he is there out of choice or his echo sounder has packed up.
Seems a bit pointless just stuck on the sand like that for hours on end.

Do I detect a tinge of sour grapes.

We don't actually need an echo sounder - we can see the seabed and as they are not THAT accurate (to the nearest cm) we can judge when we will touch the sand.

Your props must be easier to clean than mine (though I doubt it). Easy to ream out the water intakes on the sail drives when sitting on the beach - maybe you swim to clean yours (or pay an inordinate amount to be slipped (booking the slip, accepting a time and date at the convenience of the yard, taking the yacht round at the right time, cursing that its raining). We just need to check the tides, if it rains postpone for a day, wander to the little bay, touch bottom deploy 3 anchors, have breakfast as the tide falls, watch the sea eagles fishing, marvel at the flocks of black cockatoos.

Actually its very pleasant, we often stay overnight. We can walk up into the National Park, there is a little creek, fresh water, to left, you can see it in the picture. We can kayak up into the creek, or out onto the more open water, as long as the water depth is - maybe 3" (its good exercise - great for a 75 year old heart. as you can kayak gently . We secure with 3 anchors and when the tide returns we fish for plate sized bream. We are not visited by people with inane questions. You are old enough to remember but we can view the house in which the Petrov's were hidden until the brouhaha died down.

My attitude is - when I'm too old - or maybe so infirm, that I cannot manage our dinghy (which is good for 3 people - Portaboat, stored assembled) + outboard, hang on davits) then I am too old or too infirm to sail safely and I could be a liability to others. At that point we will sell our cat. Age is just a number and a bit of an irrelevance - its capability and maybe attitude that's important).

We don't yearn for company, we sail as a couple and my wife loves fishing (and cooks the fish), helps with the maintenance. If our brains need intellectual stretching - we have grandchildren for that

We were out on our cat yesterday, Josephine caught a plate sized bream and similarly sized leather jacket. I was changing a light fitting, I had help when needed - and guess what we had for dinner last night. We would not touch fish caught in a marina, nor would I swim in marina water and I certainly would not, even fleetingly, consider paying for someone to change a light fitting

Managing a yawing catamaran just needs a decent bridle, we don't yaw on our swing mooring much different to the adjacent Beneteau or Dufour, which are near neighbours.

Jonathan

 

[Daydream believer]

Do I detect a tinge of sour grapes.
We don't actually need an echo sounder - we can see the seabed and as they are not THAT accurate (to the nearest cm) we can judge when we will touch the sand.
Your props must be easier to clean than mine (though I doubt it). Easy to ream out the water intakes on the sail drives when sitting on the beach - maybe you swim to clean yours (or pay an inordinate amount to be slipped (booking the slip, accepting a time and date at the convenience of the yard, taking the yacht round at the right time, cursing that its raining). We just need to check the tides, if it rains postpone for a day, wander to the little bay, touch bottom deploy 3 anchors, have breakfast as the tide falls, watch the sea eagles fishing, marvel at the flocks of black cockatoos.

No sour grapes. I was only joking really.
I employ a man to clean the bottom of my boat. It is always done with efficiency & I rarely, find the need to complain about the cost. Companies have to make a profit, same as I did with mine.
As for echo sounders, in our area one would be lucky to see the sea bed until the tide goes out. Then it is too late.

As for rain. I cannot understand the endless posts where people complain about it. As a young boy my grandfather would take me walking in the Scottish borders, where he would point out the rain clouds gathering. We felt the rain come down in torrents, cleansing the air as we walked the hills of the Cheviots. Watched rivulets of water start to run down the hillside, in little grooves formed over the years, hidden in the heather, growing in size as the rain covered the hill. They ran down into the river Bowmont below, which gradually grew in size, so the salmon could begin moving upstream to spawn. All, amazingly, in the space of a few hours.
To this day I enjoy a walk in "proper" rain & I never worry about about sailing in it. It is just nature being-- well, nature.
Somehow I suspect the average English person is not entirely happy in hot weather. My employees were always more argumentive in hot weather & one only has to watch a plump lady with 2 kids shopping after a few days of heatwave to see if she is enjoying the heat- I think not.
As for fishing- I like to leave the fish where they belong, be it in a marina or the sea. I think that they look better there
But to each his own & if caravan sailing suits one, so beit. Would not suit me for sure.

 

[Neeves]

But to each his own & if caravan sailing suits one, so beit. Would not suit me for sure.

I've mentioned this previously.

We were crossing Bass Strait is was early morning, maybe 2am

A call came in over the VHF

'Vessel at location XYZ please come in'

We were at XYZ - we don't have AIS

I responded.

Interrogating vessel advised out nav lights were incorrect.

Me - mass panic, Josephine is off watch, so just me - rush out on deck - lights were all correct.

Advised interrogating vessel.

Reply was

'We have been monitoring you. You have been averaging 10 knots, please use your motoring light'.

(the conversation went on.......)

We averaged 10 knots over 100nm .

If that's the definition of a floating caravan - I'm happy.

Stop dreaming and believe in the real world

We use our cat - our car and cat are roughly the same age, 20 years, - we have 150,000km on both. We can live on our floating caravan independent of any outside resource for 3 months (maybe more), make our own fresh water, bake bread and in SW Tasmania you would soon run out of protein if you did not fish (no supermarkets, not even shops, actually no roads, no people). And we can cover 100nm in 10 hours - how does your 'real' yacht compare? The limit of our endurance is splendid isolation is our desire for fresh, green, veg and fruit - to which we don't have an answer.

Its not an SAS competition - we do it to enjoy it - but then pottering about in a real yacht would not suit me, I like to get speeds topping out in the high teens (knots). I like the idea of a floating caravan, 2 hot showers a day each, roast leg of lamb from the deep freeze (served on decent china), proper red wine (from a bottle) in lead crystal glasses. Age is a number it should not restrict you. If you recall the Petrov affair - we are of the same vintage - age is a number

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

For those that don't know

Josepheline is a Lightwave 35, with 3' extensions - so a Lightwave 38. Designed by Grainger and custom built by Lightwave Yachts in Australia. Fully laden with supplies for 3 months (we have a decent deep freeze) we weight in at around 7t, full of water 400l and fuel 200l. We draw 1m and have mini keels - a truly floating caravan, berths for 6 and 2 x 20hp Volvos. Wth the, my, need for speed I've developed a weight saving fetish and use 6mm High Tensile chain for the rode and use aluminium anchors. This fetish is continued for everything - if its heavy - is it essential (wine?, yes, 8mm chain - no!) Once we get the bit between the teeth we reduce weight, by having 2 hot showers a day and then keep the water reserves at a sensible level (for 2 hot showers, each, a day). As a performance cat - we don't compete (buy an Outremer) but if you want to sail a floating caravan it will be like us 7t). We don't use marinas, at home she sits on a mooring. We sail about 3,000 - 4,000nm a year (curtailed by the pandemic) but Tasmania is around 800nm each way.

I'm proud to sail a floating caravan and my wife did not like the, successfully raced, X-99 but loves the cat. Too many real yachtsman sail alone, their wife possibly finds more enjoyment in golf - each to their own. Quote me a real yacht on passage allowing you to sit at breakfast at the saloon table, eating porridge (in winter), fresh French press coffee, toast and marmalade and be on watch - looking through the saloon windows (and the radar routed by WiFi to the iPad).

By all means spend the money for your real yacht on a marina berth - ignore the comments of the ignorant real sailors to be wasting time perched on the beach - and look to the long term.

Floating caravans rule.



J