Fog - To go or not to go

[Robin]

You get a lot of fog off Daytona Beach then?

Actually yes, quite often we do have fogs Daytona , often very thick too over the ICW which we overlook from our balcony but my comments relate to 50 years of sailing in my 'home', waters of the English Channel and Biscay, both before the small boat electronics era arrived and after.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Do they still do the blind pilotage exercise in the YM exam?

 

[Robin]

Do they still do the blind pilotage exercise in the YM exam?

Don't know, the technique is certainly useful to learn, like 'proper' navigating from first principles and dead reckoning but somewhat superseded in reality by most people now using GPS and plotters.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Don't know, the technique is certainly useful to learn, like 'proper' navigating from first principles and dead reckoning but somewhat superseded in reality by most people now using GPS and plotters.

I think the comment was looks like it's closing in was the signal to get the hand bearing compass out and plot a fix before you were invited to go below draw the curtains and navigate to some buoy or other a few miles away. Happy days

 

[NormanB]

Sailing out of harbour in dense fog is foolhardy unless you have competence in blind pilotage (radar).

Sailing out of harbour in dense fog is not the time or place to acquire those skills.

 

[Robin]

I think the comment was looks like it's closing in was the signal to get the hand bearing compass out and plot a fix before you were invited to go below draw the curtains and navigate to some buoy or other a few miles away. Happy days

Bit like the old days driving test when the examiner picked up his rolled newspaper you knew he was soon to bash the dash and expect you to do an immediate emergency stop.

 

[Paddy Layback]

.. for livaboards/cruisers there's always, tomorrow, the day after, next week...

Yes indeed.

However, I have been caught out by unexpected 5-10 metre vis in

The Chenal du Four, heading up from Camaret to L'Aber Wrach
and

Coming in to The Needles, heading from Dartmouth to Yarmouth.

Both times it was on passage or towards the end, having started out in decent conditions.

Both, in retrospect, the result of cold water from the deep sea, coming in on the flood, and welling up into shallow water, to drop the sea surface air below its dewpoint.

Predictable I suppose, probably in the YM Theory syllabus, but character-building at the time..I would not have done the CdF, L'Aber etc for the experience, however coming through the Needles in fog subsequently seemed relatively unworrying..

so yes, I wouldn't do it deliberately as an exercise, but actually now, I'm glad I got caught out and had a taster.

 

[Robin]

Yes indeed.

However, I have been caught out by unexpected 10 metre vis in

The Chenal du Four, heading up from Camaret to L'Aber Wrach
and

Coming in to The Needles, heading from Dartmouth to Yarmouth.

Both, in retrospect, the result of cold water from the deep sea, coming in on the flood, and welling up into shallow water, to drop the sea surface air below its dewpoint.

Predictable I suppose, probably in the YM Theory syllabus, but character-building at the time..I would not have done the CdF, L'Aber etc for the experience, however coming through the Needles in fog subsequently seemed relatively unworrying..

so yes, I wouldn't do it deliberately as an exercise, but actually now, I'm glad I got caught out and had a taster.

Off Pte DU Raz is the same as is Alderney race when a tide direction change brings up the cold waters from deep down. Entering L'Aberwrac'h with a strong cross current in the channel in and reefs on both sides is a definite tester in fog Have that tee shirt with an extra merit badge for encountering the local sailing school's fleet of Hobie cats tacking out en masse in the fog at the same time, even though accompanied by several high speed dory and RIB safety boats in the hands of some delightful young bikini clad beauties 'Such Fun' !. Even on a clear day L'Aberwrac'h entrance is tricky as the leading line markers are hard to pick up and identify. (unless it has changed since we left in 2012).

 

[geem]

Sailing out of harbour in dense fog is foolhardy unless you have competence in blind pilotage (radar).

Sailing out of harbour in dense fog is not the time or place to acquire those skills.

Surely if you have radar you should competent to use it? I can fly my 4kw HD colour set standying on my head. Probably the reeason why I would be happy to go. Having spent many years sailing in the Irish sea, fog is commonplace. You learn to live with it but respect it as well. You need your wits about you but in calim conditions with radar it shouldnt be a problem. If you are retired and have lots of time then there is always tomorrow but if not, then you just deal with it

 

[alant]

Surely if you have radar you should competent to use it? I can fly my 4kw HD colour set standying on my head. Probably the reeason why I would be happy to go. Having spent many years sailing in the Irish sea, fog is commonplace. You learn to live with it but respect it as well. You need your wits about you but in calim conditions with radar it shouldnt be a problem. If you are retired and have lots of time then there is always tomorrow but if not, then you just deal with it

Being 'out there' & having to deal with fog = you have no choice.
Fogbound in harbour & then deciding to go = you have a choice, the wrong one could be a disaster, so why do it?

 

[Robin]

Being 'out there' & having to deal with fog = you have no choice.
Fogbound in harbour & then deciding to go = you have a choice, the wrong one could be a disaster, so why do it?

Agreed but with a caveat that says beware of getting forever 'harbour bound', as in getting into a mental state that has you waiting forever for the perfect conditions that exist only in utopia, a place I never managed to visit.

 

[geem]

Agreed but with a caveat that says beware of getting forever 'harbour bound', as in getting into a mental state that has you waiting forever for the perfect conditions that exist only in utopia, a place I never managed to visit.

We met a couple in a catamaran once on the Algarve. They had taken thrre months to sail down the Spanish/Portugal coast from Biscay. They were complaining about how much diesel they had used. We did the same trip in two weeks and sailed every day. We used neglibale diesel. It turns out they were waiting for the swell to die down! We left every day with big swell and sometimes fog. There are those that just get on and do it and are more experienced for it and there are those that dont.

 

[Robin]

We met a couple in a catamaran once on the Algarve. They had taken thrre months to sail down the Spanish/Portugal coast from Biscay. They were complaining about how much diesel they had used. We did the same trip in two weeks and sailed every day. We used neglibale diesel. It turns out they were waiting for the swell to die down! We left every day with big swell and sometimes fog. There are those that just get on and do it and are more experienced for it and there are those that don't.

We once had some friends ( with radar) wanting to accompany us to la Rochelle from Poole then go onwards when we returned to work life after our vacation time

Fog patches forecast kept them in Dartmouth for a week, whereas we left on day 2 and had crystal clear vis all the way from 3 miles out. they ended up returning to Poole another week later, sold up and bought a motor caravan to go off in instead. harbouritis had set in and eventually became terminal

 

[alant]

Agreed but with a caveat that says beware of getting forever 'harbour bound', as in getting into a mental state that has you waiting forever for the perfect conditions that exist only in utopia, a place I never managed to visit.

Who said anything about "forever harbour bound"?
Its ridiculous to compare staying in harbour because of thick fog to "waiting for perfect conditions".

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Who said anything about "forever harbour bound"?
Its ridiculous to compare staying in harbour because of thick fog to "waiting for perfect conditions".

The only indication of visibility the OP gave was that the lighthouse 500 M away was not visible. To answer the question we need to move away from "pea soup" to defined visibility either in M or boat lengths and providing you have a few seconds of reaction time to avoid small objects that a radar does not pick up then there is no reason not to leave given a well found vessel, crew versed in radar and a passage plan.

 

[Robin]

Who said anything about "forever harbour bound"?
Its ridiculous to compare staying in harbour because of thick fog to "waiting for perfect conditions".

see my reply #34, an actual situation that arose sitting inside Dartmouth harbour with no actual look see outside, just repetitive forecasts predicting extensive fog patches. THe boat accompanying us had radar ( actually an old set of ours, refurbished and sold to them). We had experienced thick fog overnight between St Albans and past Portland Bill which had unnerved our friends who then got harbouritis in Dartmouth with constant fog patches predicted. We left on day two when a cold front was expected to pass through which we expected to clear the fog so we left but they stayed put. We later found they stayed another week then went in company with another boat back to Poole home base, cruise plans torn up. We left for Camaret expecting fog patches but were confident with radar. In the event radar was not needed as the visibility post the transit of the cold front was incredible, best seen for years, all the way.

The moral was/is get some practice in and gain real confidence in the instruments then maybe fog will not be the panic shock horror it first seems.

No criticism implied to the OP or others who did and/or would stay put, just an alternative viewpoint.

 

[Shearmyste]

Up-date from us, yes I am not adverse to navigating in fog 10 years ago with only a hand held GPS and a paper chart we (being my youngest and me) whilst going round Coquet Island heading for Amble we hit fog (so thick that the RNLI vessel 10 meters from us was not visible, who was in fact going to a stranded yacht that had run aground in the fog) we ended up escorting a fishing vessel safely into harbour.

So left the following day in drizzle, had a great day then anchored off St Vaast for the next couple of nights as we reflected ourselves, would we make the same call, under our circumstances, no time pressure, our trip is not the sailing but the visiting new places and seeing different things on route. Answer yes!

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Up-date from us, yes I am not adverse to navigating in fog 10 years ago with only a hand held GPS and a paper chart we (being my youngest and me) whilst going round Coquet Island heading for Amble we hit fog (so thick that the RNLI vessel 10 meters from us was not visible, who was in fact going to a stranded yacht that had run aground in the fog) we ended up escorting a fishing vessel safely into harbour.

So left the following day in drizzle, had a great day then anchored off St Vaast for the next couple of nights as we reflected ourselves, would we make the same call, under our circumstances, no time pressure, our trip is not the sailing but the visiting new places and seeing different things on route. Answer yes!

Indeed if you were content to sit it out thats fine, making a decision purely on the basis of time even if work is calling is not a good one but given adequate visibility as I and others have said there is no reason not to go.

 

[Carmel2]

Never left in it, but after a night crossing from Mahon to Barcelona it dumped on us like brick in the supertanker anchorage, no radar or AIS at the time, not sure I want to do that again.

 

[alant]

Indeed if you were content to sit it out thats fine, making a decision purely on the basis of time even if work is calling is not a good one but given adequate visibility as I and others have said there is no reason not to go.

"given adequate visibility".