Florida Moorings?

[Corky]

Having recently retired and about to downsize house/upsize the boat. I'm attracted to trawler yachts as I've no need for speed but economy may be important and find a lot of very reasonably priced boats in Florida. Initially I considered buying and importing or moving to the Med but having looked at the cruising potential over in Florida I'm tempted to keep a mooring there. I intend spending several weeks at a time living aboard and having only had limited family holidays in Florida I've therefore got several points to consider:-
1. Cost of the pontoon moorings in Florida - how do they compare and are there places to avoid?
2. flights - costs seem very high compared to the Med - any tips?
3. Hurricane warnings - what do you do if one is imminent and you're over here?
4. Any trawler makes to avoid - with my limited budget I don't want to be hit with more than the usual boaty bills - most seem to have Lehmans but there's quite a variety. I'm good at maintenance but a complete engine rebuild would be a disaster.
5. Is there anything else I need to consider?

I'd appreciate comments from people with experience of any of the elements of this rather than conjecture or comments, I know we have a habit of going 'off piste' sometimes on here. Looking forward to the replies.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I looked into #1 last year, around St Pete's, and slip costs are reasonable - see here:
http://www.stpete.org/marina/monthly_rental_fees.asp

There's a wait list though, when I enquired last summer it was about 12 months.

Ref #2, the short answer is that the flights are more expensive because it is further away (I realise I might be stating the bleedin obvious here, but you did ask). Nice, for example, is about 650m as the crow flies, and I pay on average about £130 return. Tampa, on the other hand is about 4500m - and we typically pay about £1200 return, although in fairness there are (much) cheaper fares available. In terms of cost per mile I'd suggest that the cheapest flights to Florida are actually cheaper than the cheapest flights to the Med.

 

[Corky]

Hmm, my previous response seems to have not posted. Sorry, I'll reply again.

Thanks Jimmy for the link to St Petersburg, interesting. Thanks for letting me know about the waiting list.

With regard to cost per mile it's not always that simple, e.g. I've just been to Australia 9,000 miles each way for £760 (4.2p per mile) with Singapore Airlines and I regularly travel to Costa Blanca 1300 miles each way for approx £49 return (1.9p per mile) with Easyjet or Ryanair. I was hoping to find a supplier of such low-cost flights to Tampa or local (on a par would be circa £166 -£370) but haven't come near that yet so far.

Thanks again.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Blimey, where are you flying from? 1300m from Alicante puts you in Aberdeen.

I don't think you'll get across the Atlantic with anyone for the lower of the numbers you're talking about, certainly not without an obscure stopover somewhere. There doesn't seem to be much competition on the London-Tampa route, which is why fares are not particularly cheap (and despite this, the BA service has always been very busy when I've been on it).

 

[MikeA]

I think you'd have to look at charter flights to Sanford and then an easy drive (2 hours 'ish) to get return flights around the £400 mark.

 

[rustybarge]

Great minds and all that.....!
i recommend you join the trawler forum which is US based for all the info: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/

After lurking on their site for a few months I can give you a summary.

Twin engines trawlers of 36' and over will only just manage 2mpg at 7kts, and if you want a boat that can run for shelter at faster speed will need one with big twins of a least 300hp; this is why the bigger trawlers are so cheap. Also be aware that many American trawler were built in Taiwan and suffer from wet saturated cored decks and hulls.

If you want 3-4mpg it's 34' 6-7tons or less; but many trawlers like Islands gypsy, chb, Gand banks, marine trader although rated as s/d CANNOT get much faster than 10-11kts without big twin engines.

I wanted a single engined trawler that could at least hit 15kts if necessary, and cruise at 7kts at 3-4mpg.

here's the list:
Mainship 34' 1980's with 230hp: very cheap to buy from $10k, but many with major deck probs.
Mainship 34' from 2005 onwards with 370hp: at least €130k
Nordic tug 32' with 270hp: available from 1990's onwards for $100k

Discounting all the single engined trawlers that won't go above 10kts, that's about it!

 

[Bojangles]

Part of your problem in finding cheap transatlantic flights will probably be all the taxes/surcharges, see a breakdown of a booking I have just now, they amount to over 50% on top of the airfare


Fare Breakdown
Airfare: 631.00 GBP
U.K. Air Passenger Duty: 71.00
U.K. Passenger Service Charge: 12.75
U.S. Customs User Fee: 3.50
U.S. Immigration User Fee: 4.50
U.S. APHIS User Fee: 3.20
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax: 22.80
September 11th Security Fee: 7.20
International Surcharge: 203.00
U.S. Passenger Facility Charge: 2.90
Per Person Total: 961.85 GBP

Like the OP, I've always fancied taking to the water in Florida, part of this years holiday I've rented a waterfront villa in Cape Coral with a 23ft sportsboat, easy access to Gulf coast, looks good.

 

[Corky]

Thanks Mike

that's a good constructive suggestion. I was afraid for a moment we were going to get into disputes over how far it is to various parts of Southern Spain. A different website calculates it at 2.6p per mile.
I think Jimmy's right about lack of competition causing it. Maybe by using a different airport to Tampa, as you suggest, I can find cheaper flights. The viability of the whole scheme still needs to be assessed.

Cheers !

 

[Corky]

Wow £203 international surcharge? Don't they like tourism?

 

[Bojangles]

Yes, that's what I thought, £203... You only get this info after you book, although not complaining as the overall price is ok as it is for Glasgow-New York-Orlando-Glasgow (via Ft Myres/New York). Times 4 though as its a family holiday..

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I've rented a waterfront villa in Cape Coral with a 23ft sportsboat, easy access to Gulf coast, looks good.

Is that one of the Osprey Villas places? I'd be really interested to hear more about this. When are you going?

 

[Bojangles]

Is that one of the Osprey Villas places? I'd be really interested to hear more about this. When are you going?

This is the one I'm going to Jimmy

http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-re...e_o_lprop&utm_campaign=HAUK_reservationaccept

I'm 50 this year and I have 2 daughters, one has an 18th and the other a 21st this year, so at end of June we're off to NY for 5 days, Hard Rock Hotel at Orlando for 4 days and Cape Coral for 11 days.

If you look on Google, this one is pretty near the river connection to the Gulf, some others are fairly far inland, the boat looks pretty decent for us four

 

[MikeA]

We stayed in this one a couple of years ago https://www.flipkey.com/cape-coral-vacation-rentals/p605779/, it was great although be careful, they take the no wake zone *very* seriously. First day I out, I was pulled over by the river police - lights, siren, the lot - I was slightly above idle with a minute bow wave, no more than 6 knots. The officer concerned made US immigration seem easy going, very stern especially when I explained I didn't own the boat and didn't have any id, documents etc! Take photocopies of everything out with you.

 

[Bojangles]

We stayed in this one a couple of years ago https://www.flipkey.com/cape-coral-vacation-rentals/p605779/, it was great although be careful, they take the no wake zone *very* seriously. First day I out, I was pulled over by the river police - lights, siren, the lot - I was slightly above idle with a minute bow wave, no more than 6 knots. The officer concerned made US immigration seem easy going, very stern especially when I explained I didn't own the boat and didn't have any id, documents etc! Take photocopies of everything out with you.

Thanks for the tip, worth knowing

 

[Corky]

Thanks for this,

actually it was reading your recommendation on another thread that got me to join recently. Good site with some great advice and sensible comments. Hadn't heard of the deck problems so if I go down that route I'll ensure a good survey covering that point. As we know hull length can govern speed capability and some of the comments on that site reflect this. I'll look into Mainship.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[rustybarge]

Thanks for this,

actually it was reading your recommendation on another thread that got me to join recently. Good site with some great advice and sensible comments. Hadn't heard of the deck problems so if I go down that route I'll ensure a good survey covering that point. As we know hull length can govern speed capability and some of the comments on that site reflect this. I'll look into Mainship.

Cheers,

Phil

Each state has a separate property tax (wealth tax/sales tax) which includes boats. When you buy a second hand boat you have pay this tax on the value of your purchase. Now things get complicated.

if you spend more than about 6 months in another state ( 90 days in some) with your boat you will have to pay the tax all over again; there is no refund or double taxation agreement between the different states!

If you are cruising the ICW you will need to be careful where you leave your boat if you are returning to the uk and only have a 90 day tourist visa. BTW it's very easy to get a 6 months tourist visa, but you have to go to the US embassy for an interview; just say you want to cruise around the states in your boat and there should be no problem.

can you believe it? :ambivalence:
Land of the free?

Whereas in Europe once you've paid vat that's valid for all 27 EU countries.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

This is the one I'm going to Jimmy

http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-re...e_o_lprop&utm_campaign=HAUK_reservationaccept

I'm 50 this year and I have 2 daughters, one has an 18th and the other a 21st this year, so at end of June we're off to NY for 5 days, Hard Rock Hotel at Orlando for 4 days and Cape Coral for 11 days.

If you look on Google, this one is pretty near the river connection to the Gulf, some others are fairly far inland, the boat looks pretty decent for us four

Looks very nice. Very much like the Osprey Villas offerings:

http://ospreyvillas.com/

That's quite a trip you've got organised there - should be a (boat)load of fun.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Trawler makes - as you've found out there's loads to choose from. We have a DeFever 48 which suits us well, and yes, it does have lehman 135s, now about 27 yrs old and still going strong with about 2500 hrs on them, start immediately, no smoke, extremely easy to service (most trawler yachts have proper engine rooms, ours is walk in with standing headroom for most people, except me of course, at 6' 4"!), parts readily accessible and very cheap. I guess the top of the range make is Nordhavn, a good mate of mine has a 62 footer and has cruised all the way down the US E coast, through the Panama Canal, where we joined him for a week, and is now in the Bahamas. The build quality of the Nordhavn is a step up from a DeFever, but then again, so is the price. We've had our DF for about 7 years now and have been very pleased with her. Fortunately she was fitted with stabilisers, without them she would roll pretty badly, she's great for long distance/ long term cruising having 800 gallon fuel tanks and 400 gallon water tanks, which, with care, will last about a month, and that's having showers each day and all the usual domestic cleaning. Interestingly my mate with the Nordhavn 62 has a watermaker, but in over 4 years of living on board he has never used it. As already mentioned there is a trawler yacht forum, as well as a DeFever owners club, as well as no doubt many others.

Wrt flights, he and his wife fly back here 3 times per year to see family and friends, and they always fly Virgin, economy+ coming back and economy going. No idea of costs, but they must be pretty competitive for them to always use them.

 

[Corky]

DeFever is a make I've not considered, I'll look into that one too. Why would she roll badly without stabilisers? Too narrow a beam for her length?

Thanks for the input and thanks again to Rustybarge for that shocker, looks like I'll need to get brokers to quote for this too.

Many thanks to all for some invaluable advice in this.

Phil

 

[longjohnsilver]

DeFever is a make I've not considered, I'll look into that one too. Why would she roll badly without stabilisers? Too narrow a beam for her length?

Thanks for the input and thanks again to Rustybarge for that shocker, looks like I'll need to get brokers to quote for this too.

Many thanks to all for some invaluable advice in this.


Phil

I think you'll find that all displacement boats are prone to rolling due to the shape of their hulls. Many people manage without stabilisers but almost all would have them if they could.