Flares - are there any stats on actual emergency use?

[Babylon]

I'm about to drop two hundred nicker on replacing my (now very) out-of-date pack of flares, and was just musing on whether the CG/RNLI keeps any stats on flare deployment in actual emergencies in UK waters?

Without VHF, EPIRBS, mobile telecommunications etc, I have no doubt flare use would be much higher, but what are the actual numbers?

 

[Biggles Wader]

I can recall being on vessels that responded to sighting a red flare twice. One in the 1970s and the other about 15 years later. Yesterday's technology?

 

[V1701]

Well if you have a DSC VHF & an EPIRB or a PLB I would spend your money on something else. Or is it a condition of your insurance, in which case LED?

 

[Praxinoscope]

The only pyrotechnics I now carry are those in the life-raft, I do carry 3 laser 'flares' which are instantly accessible, These combined with an EPIRB and VHF with GPS DCS (fixed and hand held) I think are sufficient to compensate for not carrying a set of pyrotechnic flares.

 

[Tranona]

No - at least none I could find when I looked a few years ago. RNLI and coastguard have published figures for means of first contact and mobile phone dominates. However you need to be aware that calls from leisure craft are a minority of calls overall.

Most of the support for flares is now anecdotal and is often related to their value in identifying a casualty for example from a helicopter or in heavy weather and poor visibility. Rarely if ever as a first means of contact.

In my view an individual should carry out their own risk assessment and then relate that to the methods of communication open to them. Therefore if you sail in coastal waters you have VHF and often mobile phone coverage. For detail location AIS has a value. If sailing offshore, particularly ocean sailing you might want to consider sat phones for communication plus EPIRB for wider notification and flares for location.

Personally I have an LED - but of course like all the flares I have had in the past has never been used for real.

 

[fisherman]

A local fisherman sank his 15ft open boat, a few weeks ago. He had a PLB but the LJ inflation pushed it behind him and he couldn't reach it. He fired 7 of the 9 miniflares he had clipped to his straps. There were several reports and there was some confusion over position. A panpan rather than mayday was called, possibly by the CG, a nearby yacht used the incorrect mayday relay script for the report, failed to return to the casualty position and the CG gave out the yacht position for the casualty, but the LB was called out and by the time they launched the casualty had fired his PLB and the correct position was given them.
Recent experience suggests that the CG response to a beacon or EPIRB is to phone a few people to see if the registered holder is at sea. Nice for your wife.
The flares however are an incontravertible distress call. Lot of locals have gone and bought some.
The boat stayed afloat, just, with the 200lt or so space under the foredeck. He is back in service, outboard quickly fixed, along with Honda donk. Electrics all shot.

 

[Tranona]

A local fisherman sank his 15ft open boat, a few weeks ago. He had a PLB but the LJ inflation pushed it behind him and he couldn't reach it. He fired 7 of the 9 miniflares he had clipped to his straps. There were several reports and there was some confusion over position. A panpan rather than mayday was called, possibly by the CG, a nearby yacht used the incorrect mayday relay script for the report, failed to return to the casualty position and the CG gave out the yacht position for the casualty, but the LB was called out and by the time they launched the casualty had fired his PLB and the correct position was given them.
Recent experience suggests that the CG response to a beacon or EPIRB is to phone a few people to see if the registered holder is at sea. Nice for your wife.
The flares however are an incontravertible distress call. Lot of locals have gone and bought some.
The boat stayed afloat, just, with the 200lt or so space under the foredeck. He is back in service, outboard quickly fixed, along with Honda donk. Electrics all shot.

That illustrates what I was saying in the previous post. consider the risks and compare with the means you have at your disposal. One would assume that a yacht would have at least a VHF, possibly a mobile, a means of giving an accurate position direct to the coastguard etc. Very different from your fisherman friend. While flares are visible indicators of an emergency in this case, they need to be seen. OK if there are other boats around and close to shore with a chance that somebody might see them. Even then as you describe there was still confusion and it was the electronic means that resulted in an effective response.

Always good to learn from incidents, but they need to be related to situations that are likely for you and the way you use your boat.

 

[fisherman]

That illustrates what I was saying in the previous post. consider the risks and compare with the means you have at your disposal. One would assume that a yacht would have at least a VHF, possibly a mobile, a means of giving an accurate position direct to the coastguard etc. Very different from your fisherman friend.

Different? He had a VHF, but no time to use it. He capsized.

 

[thinwater]

Electronic flares are catching on in the US. Note that I am ONLY talking about the two brands that have USCG certifications (Sirius and Orion) and not the gaggle of lights and lasers that do not meet the requirements.

Advantages include long storage life, no disposal, 6-8 hours time on one set of batteries (and you can change batteries in seconds), SOS signal pattern, no fire, IR visibility to SAR using night vision, 10-mile visibility. Hang it in the rigging when needed and it flashes very brightly, with a conspicuous pattern, for hours.

Sirius Electronic Flare

 

[Daydream believer]

I'm about to drop two hundred nicker on replacing my (now very) out-of-date pack of flares, and was just musing on whether the CG/RNLI keeps any stats on flare deployment in actual emergencies in UK waters?

Without VHF, EPIRBS, mobile telecommunications etc, I have no doubt flare use would be much higher, but what are the actual numbers?

I do not think that it would give reliable data to just give figures about flares only.
I would expect that VHF has the widest use for distress calls. However, the "quality" of these calls could be in doubt. Would the distress process have even started without the presence of VHF. ie people seem to call for help for some "dubious" issues. I recall going aground many times, before I had VHF, in the 70s. I just dealt with it. If someone does it now, they can be heard bleating on the VHF almost immediately for assistance

Would they have fired a flare? Would they have used the epirb? Did anyone use the EPIRB when, say, only 5 miles from land. Did anyone try to use a laser flare as first call when out of line of sight of any vessels or land?
Out of the TOTAL calls were flares used in the first instance, or later, in proceedings & how effective were they. What other methods were tried first?

 

[Kelpie]

A local fisherman sank his 15ft open boat, a few weeks ago. He had a PLB but the LJ inflation pushed it behind him and he couldn't reach it. He fired 7 of the 9 miniflares he had clipped to his straps. There were several reports and there was some confusion over position. A panpan rather than mayday was called, possibly by the CG, a nearby yacht used the incorrect mayday relay script for the report, failed to return to the casualty position and the CG gave out the yacht position for the casualty, but the LB was called out and by the time they launched the casualty had fired his PLB and the correct position was given them.
Recent experience suggests that the CG response to a beacon or EPIRB is to phone a few people to see if the registered holder is at sea. Nice for your wife.
The flares however are an incontravertible distress call. Lot of locals have gone and bought some.
The boat stayed afloat, just, with the 200lt or so space under the foredeck. He is back in service, outboard quickly fixed, along with Honda donk. Electrics all shot.

Good to see a fisherman wearing a LJ, pretty rare in my experience- despite most of them being given some very natty compact ones using EU funding.

 

[Sandy]

Recent experience suggests that the CG response to a beacon or EPIRB is to phone a few people to see if the registered holder is at sea. Nice for your wife.

Last October we left Fowey for Plymouth in company with a French boat. F7 gusting F9 in a rough sea and thick cloud at sea level. The French skipper lost sight of us and could not see us on AIS. They reported it to Falmouth, they could see us on AIS heading east at 7 knots, but still called the skipper's wife, would the skipper please call when arrived at Plymouth.

By the time we arrived at Sutton Harbour the lock keeper knew about it. Stuck his head out the window and shouted, 'Call Falmouth, your tea is ready'. Good to see that a) the French boat was concerned and b) the GC checked up on us.

 

[boomerangben]

No idea about stats. There are all sorts of scenarios where you might need to raise the alarm and be subsequently found as quickly as possible. There is no one system that will work in all situations. Hence the plethora of options and opinions. To those who advocate the use of LED flares, ask yourself how well will it help during the day and how much sailing at night is done. Note that the products certified by the USCG require an alternative day signal, recognising that an LED is not suitably effective during the day. The real benefit of pyros as I see it is the ease at which they can be seen at close quarters by your best means of rescue - the nearest vessel day or night.

I don’t think there would sufficient statistics to make an analysis of then valid. I’ll keep carrying flares because I know how much time is consumed conducting searches.

 

[fisherman]

Good to see a fisherman wearing a LJ, pretty rare in my experience- despite most of them being given some very natty compact ones using EU funding.

The MCA uses a drone to spot fishermen arriving outside the harbour without the LJ on.
Think the majority use them now.

 

[Kelpie]

The MCA uses a drone to spot fishermen arriving outside the harbour without the LJ on.
Think the majority use them now.

That's both sneaky and impressive.
Harder to do in our neck of the woods of course, usually only one or two boats in one tiny loch, so Big Brother's resources are spread pretty thin.

 

[Tranona]

Different? He had a VHF, but no time to use it. He capsized.

Then he had the appropriate gear for his type of boating. Rarely if ever do yachts capsize in the way that fishing boats do. As I said you need to consider what equipment you carry in relation to the type of boating you do, the sort of boat you have and what might be appropriate for where you sail. For example many people carry EPIRBs for coastal sailing although the number of activations close to N European shores is tiny, compared with, say, The Americas or Australia. Simple reason there is far better developed and extensive VHF system meaning communications with rescue services and location of incident is much easier without resorting to using the satellite system.

 

[Neeves]

Then he had the appropriate gear for his type of boating. Rarely if ever do yachts capsize in the way that fishing boats do. As I said you need to consider what equipment you carry in relation to the type of boating you do, the sort of boat you have and what might be appropriate for where you sail. For example many people carry EPIRBs for coastal sailing although the number of activations close to N European shores is tiny, compared with, say, The Americas or Australia. Simple reason there is far better developed and extensive VHF system meaning communications with rescue services and location of incident is much easier without resorting to using the satellite system.

I agree with Tranona and his earlier post.

If one life is saved as a result of use of flares then flares have their value. Flares are a bit like LRs, LJs, jackstays, tethers and harnesses - most never use them (but we would not go to sea, or cross oceans, without them). When you hear the helicopter the smoke flare will make it so much easier for the rescue crew to see you more quickly.

They are not cheap, and neither is the insurance for the yacht - but you pay insurance without question (most never fall back on same) why question buying flares - lives are surely worth more than your yacht.

We are required to carry flares - parachute flares are excluded - but having used them (not in anger) I buy two - they might be useful.

Disposal is a real problem but much easier than explaining to a wife or mother why you lost their loved one.

Jonathan

 

[penfold]

Different? He had a VHF, but no time to use it. He capsized.

An EPIRB in a float-free mount would be a good idea for single man operation, he was well prepared but still had problems where something needed him to manually activate it.

 

[jlavery]

I have an EPIRB, AIS MOB beacons in lifejackets, and of course DSC VHF. Think that's enough acronyms.

I also have an offshore flare pack. My view is that a handheld red flare (night) or smoke (day) is the ultimate "we're here" signal. Especially if we're one of the many "white yachts with white sails" in the Solent or other busy place, and need assistance.

 

[Scillypete]

Lots of differing circumstances already. we had call to use flares in anger that were not seen by passing vessels that we could see, we were over seven hundred miles offshore, a shout on vhf with no aerial was our saviour although we didn’t know it would work. The epirb had been activated some time before.

My faith is flares has been somewhat diminished by that experience although I feel that inshore they still have a place but offshore is doubtful.

It’s a tough call every distress situation is going to be different so probably best to be as prepared for everything as you can in a small boat