Flamingo yachts Largs

[John_P]

We chartered a yacht from Flamingo Yachts recently, during the week one of the party was at the mast attending the sails inadvertantly stood on a hatch cover and broke it. We told the company of the damage and was amazed when we got a bill for £500 The hatch is a flush fitting 10mm perspex affair and designed to be stood on. We tried to reason with them but at the moment the charge stands. What is the panels opinion, take it on the chin or fight it.

 

[Boathook]

If the hatch was shut it shouldn't break in my view. If it was open then it might well break.
I quite happily stand on my shut hatches by the mast. 10mm perspex in an aluminium frame. If they were open they aren't stood on.

 

[awol]

How gravitationally challenged was the crew member? I now have a broken forehatch, also ~10mm, after the bowman tripped and landed on it blunt end first last weekend. I have had the boat for many years and have stood my 15+stone on that hatch without concern throughout. You may have difficulty proving that the breakage was other than misuse or accident - whichever it is is likely to eat into your deposit.

 

[mainsail1]

Hatches are expensive. I don't think charterers have a clue how expensive bits for boats are and they forget the labour costs to fit.

 

[Skylark]

Only twice in my sailing career have I chartered a boat, both times I used Flamingo. Very positive experience. In more recent times I now regularly see their boats in The Clyde. I believe that they still enjoy a good reputation.

Which boat has a hatch within stepping distance of the mast?

I don’t know the circumstances but consider it most likely best to take the hit and move on.

 

[jwilson]

A closed hatch should be fine: even ancient crazed ones don't generally just break.

Perhaps even a newish hatch with just one handle in hold-a-bit-open position to allow a bit of a through could be if stood on very breakable. Tricky for the charterer proving it was properly closed though. £500 was not that expensive for a new forehatch hatch plus quick professional fitting - and remember charter boats need very fast repairs. No waiting for cheap online purchase of parts and maybe a cheaper labour rate. It's get the part that day even if it means driving 100+ miles to get it and whatever the labour charge is.

 

[Daydream believer]

Were you told of the dangers of standing on the hatch? Were any crew injured in the accident ( am sure that there must have been something that has arisen after the event )& has a counter claim been lodged. That must be considered. If it was open did anyone trap their fingers? If it was shut did anyone slip & hurt their back? Who is to know if the crew was OK, as it was abroad & difficult to see a doctor on holiday, when moving from place to place on a yacht.
What steps were taken by the charter company to safeguard the hatch from inexperienced crew from treading on the hatch & what training was given prior to the start of the charter? Did the hatch ( if it was large) have any non slip strips stuck on the surface to avoid crew slips? What articles in the charter document allow for accidental damage to be charged if it is an accident, especially if it was one caused by the failure of the charter company to advise of the risk. I suggest a claim, spurious or otherwise, in respect of injury & stress on the holiday, plus stress caused by their attitude. A good "injuries are us" lawyer should get you a few bob.
Do not give up. You could do well out of it. Send them a bill for £ 5K as starters to avoid legal proceedings, otherwise you will be forced to make a claim for full compensation.

 

[John_P]

Were you told of the dangers of standing on the hatch? Were any crew injured in the accident ( am sure that there must have been something that has arisen after the event )& has a counter claim been lodged. That must be considered.
What steps were taken by the charter company to safeguard the hatch from inexperienced crew from treading on the hatch & what training was given prior to the start of the charter? What articles in the charter document allow for accidental damage to be charged if it is an accident, especially if it was one caused by the failure of the charter company to advise of the risk. I suggest a claim, spurious or otherwise, in respect of injury & stress on the holiday, plus stress caused by their attitude. A good "injuries are us" lawyer should get you a few bob.
Do not give up. You could do well out of it.

Thanks for all your comments, the only thing in the companys Ts anCs relates to damage due to misuse and negligence, i dont believe either apply

 

[John_P]

Only twice in my sailing career have I chartered a boat, both times I used Flamingo. Very positive experience. In more recent times I now regularly see their boats in The Clyde. I believe that they still enjoy a good reputation.

Which boat has a hatch within stepping distance of the mast?

I don’t know the circumstances but consider it most likely best to take the hit and move on.

It was a 40 ft Hanse, small perspex hatch immediately forward of the mast,

 

[Daydream believer]

It is well known that whilst Hanse yachts are excellent they are built to a cost. Just about every component is designed to "just" do the job. I have a friend with a 45 ft Hanse & things like vangs have broken 3 times as has the boom. The spec for each clearly shows that it is OK for boats UP TO 45 ft. I have spoken to others with similar problems. Those who go on long trips spend alot of money upgrading their yachts. Then thay have a brilliant boat. But the standard is OK for its job in most cases- but not all. I would expect few private owners break their hatches- I have not heard about any. However, are they up to hard charter? I suspect not.
But that is not the holiday makers problem. The charter company has to prove negligence. It is not like the boat being rammed into the dock. Let them prove to a lawyer that they took all necessary steps to avoid your crew from having an accident & see how they respond.
If I was the OP I would be fuming & would not give in too easily. Kick back, just for the hell of it.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Just how did it break? Did the perspex break or did the hinges break indicating it was propped open when stood on which should never have happened.

 

[Skylark]

It was a 40 ft Hanse, small perspex hatch immediately forward of the mast,

I don't know the boat so can't comment. I remain of the view that it would be better to take the hit and move on. Accidents do happen.

Trying to blame the boat and its equipment is a hiding to nothing and will likely turn you into a grumpy old man and I wouldn't wish that on anyone

 

[Tranona]

It is well known that whilst Hanse yachts are excellent they are built to a cost. Just about every component is designed to "just" do the job. I have a friend with a 45 ft Hanse & things like vangs have broken 3 times as has the boom. The spec for each clearly shows that it is OK for boats UP TO 45 ft. I have spoken to others with similar problems. Those who go on long trips spend alot of money upgrading their yachts. Then thay have a brilliant boat. But the standard is OK for its job in most cases- but not all. I would expect few private owners break their hatches- I have not heard about any. However, are they up to hard charter? I suspect not.
But that is not the holiday makers problem. The charter company has to prove negligence. It is not like the boat being rammed into the dock. Let them prove to a lawyer that they took all necessary steps to avoid your crew from having an accident & see how they respond.
If I was the OP I would be fuming & would not give in too easily. Kick back, just for the hell of it.

I expect the hatch will be made by Lewmar and exactly the same specification a they make for every other boat builder.

 

[awol]

A closed hatch should be fine: even ancient crazed ones don't generally just break.

I reckon mine had lasted over 40 years, was artistically crazed, but the ~10mm acrylic was fractured, not just cracked by the sudden contact with the bowman's posterior. I am glad to say that apart from his feelings, he was not hurt. A new Gebo 50x50 hatch with a surround is north of £600 so £500 is not over the top.
As for Daydream believer's take on the situation, he has chosen an appropriate soubriquet and long may he dream on.

 

[SaltyC]

We chartered from them last year and I personally found them professional and the boats well equipped and maintained.
I have stood on crazed hatches on my last boat with no problems, I am surprised standing on the hatch would break it if closed as it should be at sea.
I agree, take the hit and put it down to experience, £500 is a reasonable (yes, expensive - it's a boat! ) Move on.

 

[Daydream believer]

..

 

[Resolution]

But that is not the holiday makers problem. The charter company has to prove negligence. It is not like the boat being rammed into the dock. Let them prove to a lawyer that they took all necessary steps to avoid your crew from having an accident & see how they respond.
If I was the OP I would be fuming & would not give in too easily. Kick back, just for the hell of it.

If we all took this attitude there will be some happy lawyers but very soon no-one willing to put their yachts up for charter. From the OPs description his crew broke the hatch so should accept the consequences.

 

[Frogmogman]

If we all took this attitude there will be some happy lawyers but very soon no-one willing to put their yachts up for charter. From the OPs description his crew broke the hatch so should accept the consequences.

Involve a lawyer over a £500 bill ? !!

I agree with those who suggest that unless Flamingo are prepared to waive the charge when the matter is discussed with them, the op should move on.

 

[Daydream believer]

If we all took this attitude there will be some happy lawyers but very soon no-one willing to put their yachts up for charter. From the OPs description his crew broke the hatch so should accept the consequences.

Which is exactly the attitude that allows them to get away with it. They are in the charter business. Fair wear & tear is theirs to deal with.

 

[ashtead]

Seems to me more to account than revealed ? A Lewmar hatch on what is a newish Hanse 12m boat might break for a reason but how would such a hatch pass any safety testing if when closed the weight of a person broke it ? I assume the crew member didn’t fall from the mast? Have you asked about this unknown safety issue on the Hanse forum ? If loads of hatches recorded breaking in such scenario you might have a better defence but currently would suggest paying up and moving on if an invoice can be supplied to support claim.