Flaming Flares

[Bru]

Where did you find that? I'm not questioning it. I'm genuinely interested, but have been able to find precious little technical info when I've looked.
I must admit that I was wondering if two or three CREE led's could be configured to good effect. I can well imagine that in a few years LED's will far out-perform flares in terms of light output.

The technical info IS a bit sparse I will freely admit

It helps that I've got a Mk.3 Odeo in my hot little hand right now (well actually it's six inches from my left elbow on the corner of my desk as I need both index fingers to type!) and it also helps that I know a fair bit about LED lighting from using the stuff in theatrical work

I'm basically extrapolating from the following ...

The Mk1 and Mk2 Odeo units used just 5 LEDs and the word "laser" was frequently used in the literature
The Mk3 unit uses 21 LEDs and ODEO no longer use the word "laser" in their literature
The LEDs in the Mk3 unit are conventional high intensity red LEDs of the same type as used in some of our LED stage lighting units

I'm making an educated guess that the Mk3 has gone over to non-lasing LEDs because of their broader beam pattern and significantly better MTBF (mean time between failures - in the early days of LED stage lighting we used to get a LOT of duff LEDs, now it's almost unheard of)

Bear in mind though that the term "Laser LED" covers a pretty broad range of devices from genuine solid state lasers through to devices that were little more than focussed standard LEDs. I don't know what the Mk1 or Mk2 Odeo units used but from the context I would suspect they used one of the moderately focussed beam devices ( to get sufficient intensity) using the motorised head to create a simulation of a broad beam

I'd also add that I looked at the Mk2 a while back and thought it inadequate for the job (it was getting mixed reviews). It's the Mk3 that has moved things on to the point where I'm satisfied it's a viable method of signalling location in conjunction with other means of signalling distress.

 

[maxi77]

From which I quote a critical passage which answers one of the misapprehensions about their use ...

"The ODEO uses U.S. Food and Drug Administration-approved laser light technology and meets EN 60825-1 and Class 3R regulations. This means that exposure won’t damage your eyes—but you still wouldn’t want to stare at the lasers. The ODEO is also safe to use during search-and-rescue operations because unlike laser-pointers, it won’t blind rescue vessel or aircraft operators."

That is not quite what Class 3R means

Class 3R

A Class 3R laser is considered safe if handled carefully, with restricted beam viewing. With a class 3R laser, the MPE can be exceeded, but with a low risk of injury. Visible continuous lasers in Class 3R are limited to 5 mW. For other wavelengths and for pulsed lasers, other limits apply.

The warning labels should include the following

LASER RADIATION
AVOID DIRECT EYE EXPOSURE
CLASS 3R LASER PRODUCT

No mention of a safe range and note no mention of a safe range for observation with binoculars which significantly increase the risk of eye damage.

Lasers are classed from 1-4 with 4 being the most dangerous.

As I have said before a lot more work is needed before a 'laser flare' is a reality. There is great potential here but little practical research.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Erbas,

Thanks for that.
Does the Mk3 still use the motorised head? I would have thought that, with 21 conventional Led's, they wouldn't really need it. They could use the circuitry to simulate movement; it would be more reliable too.

FWIW I've got a rear light which I use on my bike which I made up using a red CREE Led. It's very bright indeed...possibly too much so! This thread has made me think that, during the summer, I should carry it on the boat.

 

[Bru]

That is not quite what Class 3R means

Indeed however we've moved on a bit as it's now become clear that that article applied to the Mk2 Odeo which used Class 3R Laser LEDs. However, the Mk3 Odeo does NOT use laser LEDs (and carries no mention of "laser" nor any warning labels pertaining thereto)

I will confess that the lack of detailed technical info is frustrating, Then again this is a developing and potentially lucrative commercial field so I suppose it's not surprising that the manufacturers don'[t want to reveal too much

As I have said before a lot more work is needed before a 'laser flare' is a reality. There is great potential here but little practical research.

Well the reality is that I've got one right here. It works, it's been field tested and it is a viable option. Yes, there are certainly very good arguments in favour of continuing to have pyro flares available which I fully accept notwithstanding my own personal decision to dispense with them based on our own particular circumstances (a decision, I might add, that is not set in stone. If I could resolve the near impossibility of safe disposal I would reverse that decision and carry both. Taking time off work to make a 300 mile round trip by road to dispose of out of date flares is not an attractive option and that's assuming that Humber MRCC will take them)

 

[prv]

If I could resolve the near impossibility of safe disposal I would reverse that decision and carry both. Taking time off work to make a 300 mile round trip by road to dispose of out of date flares is not an attractive option and that's assuming that Humber MRCC will take them)

Worth carrying just hand-helds, then? I recently disposed of my old ones by letting them off in my back garden and then dropping into the dustbin full of water I use for flushing the outboard. No risk of being mistaken for distress, no nuisance to anybody else, no legal impediment as far as the forum could think of (and provide sources for) the last time it was discussed.

I still have a couple of rockets the Police won't accept, though, despite wasting half a day of my time by saying on the phone that they would. I don't have a good self-disposal solution for those.

Pete

 

[Bru]

Worth carrying just hand-helds, then?

Possibly but then unlike some of the correspondents on this here thread I am satisfied with the eVDS as a replacement for hand held red flares - it's orange smoke that I haven't got a satisfactory non-pyro substitute for and I doubt my neighbours would be happy if I let them off in the back garden!

 

[NUTMEG]

This makes a change from anchors anyway.

 

[maxi77]

Indeed however we've moved on a bit as it's now become clear that that article applied to the Mk2 Odeo which used Class 3R Laser LEDs. However, the Mk3 Odeo does NOT use laser LEDs (and carries no mention of "laser" nor any warning labels pertaining thereto)

I will confess that the lack of detailed technical info is frustrating, Then again this is a developing and potentially lucrative commercial field so I suppose it's not surprising that the manufacturers don'[t want to reveal too much



Well the reality is that I've got one right here. It works, it's been field tested and it is a viable option. Yes, there are certainly very good arguments in favour of continuing to have pyro flares available which I fully accept notwithstanding my own personal decision to dispense with them based on our own particular circumstances (a decision, I might add, that is not set in stone. If I could resolve the near impossibility of safe disposal I would reverse that decision and carry both. Taking time off work to make a 300 mile round trip by road to dispose of out of date flares is not an attractive option and that's assuming that Humber MRCC will take them)

First whilst the mk3 may not use diode lasers it does use high power leds which have very similar safety requirements to lasers, and carry similar risks.

Second no laser or led device has been recognised under SOLAS, so in my mind are not yet actually recognised rescue devices even though they may be helpful in a rescue, but a high power torch can also do muchthe same.

As I have said all along I do believe lasers or perhaps high power leds can be used in marine safety, but it is needed to have agreed recognisable standards to make such devices really valuable. I do know from bitter experience just how tortuous it is getting change accepted at IMO, but in the end that is the only way to go.

 

[Bru]

This makes a change from anchors anyway.

It is looking like one of THOSE subjects innit!

 

[MinorSwing]

>I wouldn't rely on orange smoke as a distress signal, except to guide in a rescuer.

I think you have never seen the amount of orange smoke that the big Pains Wessex flare puts out, it goes on for minutes and is a huge amount. That's from experience of firing dozens of them.

I certainly have. I've fired many different types of flare beginning with rockets at Warsash so long ago that I hardly remember it.
Orange smoke is fine for showing helicopters the wind direction and for alerting people looking down from cliff tops, but at sea level it is only as effective as a hand held because of curvature. If you can see an aircraft or boat then that's the time to use smoke. If you can't then orange smoke is useless. At sea level the line of sight is only three or four miles so an observer at sea level would need to be within that range to see smoke.