Fitting battery charging advice please

[Alex_Blackwood]

Not sure why i would electrocute myself, my suggestion was a proper shore power inlet, with an onboard RCBO

I didn't suggest an extension lead, neither has anyone else in this thread. Besides, it's rubbish that a boat would fail the BSS for having an extension lead onboard.


More nonsense. an extension lead would surely come aboard via the same route as ashore power lead ?

If someone just used an extension lead or they used a proper shore power installation they would plug the cable into the same receptacle on the pontoon, that's what provides protection to the cable, nothing onboard can do so.

16a sockets on the marina have no fuses, but there is an overrated the lead, huh ??? "Normal" UK shore power is 16a max (of course there are 32a, 64a etc available) and ashore power cable should be 2.5mm, which is typically rated at 30a, even 1.5 is 21a. I think you might find it's a legal requirement for shore power installations to be fitted with RCDs and MCBs or RCBOs.

Quite right Paul. What the 18th ed. says for marinas. Looks like protection to me. Perhaps I should refrain from using an extension with my lawnmower as well. Equally dangerous?
709.531.2 RCDs
Socket-outlets shall be protected individually by an RCD having the characteristics specified in Regulation 415.1.1.
Devices selected shall disconnect all poles, including the neutral.

709.533 Devices for protection against overcurrent
Each socket-outlet shall be protected by an individual overcurrent protective device, in accordance with the
requirements of Chapter 43.

 

[Boater Sam]

thanks for the responses folks. Enjoyed reading all that. Lots of good ideas too. I spent hours overnight reading things as I couldn’t sleep much anyway and seems to be a heck of a lot of conflicting info into there.

Went to local chandlery today and bought the charger I posted. Currently I’ve hooked it up while I do some other bits and am here todsy but I think I’d like to get a proper shore power system in place. Having said that the solar panel idea doesn’t seem bad either!

I also bought a galvanic isolator and planned to install a shore power system myself. Just a simple in plug, galvanic isolator, charger I posted off to the batteries and maybe a separate plug for things on board. Planned to get an rcd and mcb. What I cannot fathom is earthing. Current the earth seems to go to neutral on one of the batts but no where else. What on earth do I do to earth / ground ? Thanks

I know how to do it but as I talk rubbish you would have to message me to find out. Please do.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I know how to do it but as I talk rubbish you would have to message me to find out. Please do.

If i was the OP i would seriously avoid taking private advice from this poster, he consistently gives incorrect advice.

 

[PaulRainbow]

thanks for the responses folks. Enjoyed reading all that. Lots of good ideas too. I spent hours overnight reading things as I couldn’t sleep much anyway and seems to be a heck of a lot of conflicting info into there.

Went to local chandlery today and bought the charger I posted. Currently I’ve hooked it up while I do some other bits and am here todsy but I think I’d like to get a proper shore power system in place. Having said that the solar panel idea doesn’t seem bad either!

I also bought a galvanic isolator and planned to install a shore power system myself. Just a simple in plug, galvanic isolator, charger I posted off to the batteries and maybe a separate plug for things on board. Planned to get an rcd and mcb. What I cannot fathom is earthing. Current the earth seems to go to neutral on one of the batts but no where else. What on earth do I do to earth / ground ? Thanks

Incoming shore power live and neutral go to the consumer unit, RCD/RCBO etc.

Incoming Earth >>> GI >>> Earth busbar or terminal post. All other Earths connect to this same point. From the same point, a wire needs to be connected to the water. In the case of your boat that could be an anode. If there is no available anode you can fit a small button anode just for the Earth wire.

 

[Refueler]

thanks for the responses folks. Enjoyed reading all that. Lots of good ideas too. I spent hours overnight reading things as I couldn’t sleep much anyway and seems to be a heck of a lot of conflicting info into there.

Went to local chandlery today and bought the charger I posted. Currently I’ve hooked it up while I do some other bits and am here todsy but I think I’d like to get a proper shore power system in place. Having said that the solar panel idea doesn’t seem bad either!

I also bought a galvanic isolator and planned to install a shore power system myself. Just a simple in plug, galvanic isolator, charger I posted off to the batteries and maybe a separate plug for things on board. Planned to get an rcd and mcb. What I cannot fathom is earthing. Current the earth seems to go to neutral on one of the batts but no where else. What on earth do I do to earth / ground ? Thanks

Why not invest in a good book ?

Alastair Garrod
Electrics Afloat

Produced in collaboration with Practical Boat Owner ....

Has everything in simple and straightforward terms ....

ISBN 0-7136-6149-6

I also have various other boat electrics books - such as the !2v Bible .... but Garrod's book beats them easily. Edition I have - only omission is that of Lithium based ... but for most people - I don't think that's an issue ...

 

[Tranona]

Glad you think so, hopefully you will electrocute yourself. How rude a person you are.

So that is why the Boat Safety Scheme would fail a boat with an extension lead instantly instead of an installed shore power connection?

You may get away with it on the briny but it is not correct.

Just for completeness, the BSS guidelines in 3.9.2 specifically allow to the type of cable described in Post#2.

Always a good idea to check facts before making such categorical assertions!

 

[Boater Sam]

Just for completeness, the BSS guidelines in 3.9.2 specifically allow to the type of cable described in Post#2.

Always a good idea to check facts before making such categorical assertions!

I never said that the campsite kit was not suitable but I do say that a 13A extension lead slung in through a doorway is certainly not suitable.
Don't put words into my mouth that are not correct. I do not need to check facts that I have known for 50 years to be correct.
Arrogant gits on this forum, now have loads on ignore.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I never said that the campsite kit was not suitable but I do say that a 13A extension lead slung in through a doorway is certainly not suitable.
Don't put words into my mouth that are not correct. I do not need to check facts that I have known for 50 years to be correct.
Arrogant gits on this forum, now have loads on ignore.

Only person in this thread who has mentioned an extension lead is you !!

 

[Refueler]

I think a modicum of thought needed here ...

Post 2 suggesting the safe versions of camper leads is valid ..

Post 3 then rightly says 'extension leads' are not good idea - bet we've all done it at one time of another.

But I do not see Post 3 targeting Post 2 items.

I think an escalation of assumptions may have crept in ... and then 'pride' taken over.

The original Post 1 does imply considering a plain extension lead ... as one possibility. Post 2 and Post 3 are both correct in suggesting otherwise.

 

[Boater Sam]

I think a modicum of thought needed here ...

Post 2 suggesting the safe versions of camper leads is valid ..

Post 3 then rightly says 'extension leads' are not good idea - bet we've all done it at one time of another.

But I do not see Post 3 targeting Post 2 items.

I think an escalation of assumptions may have crept in ... and then 'pride' taken over.

The original Post 1 does imply considering a plain extension lead ... as one possibility. Post 2 and Post 3 are both correct in suggesting otherwise.

Thank you Refueler, the voice of sanity again.
I sometimes wonder why I bother posting here.

 

[GoatsonaBoat]

Thanks for all your advice folks. I appreciate it. Still weighing up the options but I’ve had many questions answered. I think in reality camper style extension with proper protection will be needed for now until boat comes out of the water to get an anode fitted as currently sitting in marina can’t see how that happens. Thanks again.

 

[oldharry]

That does not mean they are unsafe in the way the OP wants to use one. Thousands in use in exposed position bt caravanners and campers - don't seem to recall an epidemic of people being electrocuted.

Yes true, but caravan installations have a Consumer unit with RCD and breakers between the feed cable and the onboard circuits. The pitch supply also has breakers and RCD. Many caravans have aluminimum bodies anyway, so that a short to the body could be rather - er - shocking! Belt and braces? Maybe, but as you say caravan electrocutions are very rare. so it seems to work.

I must say I dont like taking power tools on to my boat when it's afloat without an RCD somewhere in the line, having had a nasty jolt from a drill a great many years ago working aboard.

 

[Tranona]

I never said that the campsite kit was not suitable but I do say that a 13A extension lead slung in through a doorway is certainly not suitable.
Don't put words into my mouth that are not correct. I do not need to check facts that I have known for 50 years to be correct.
Arrogant gits on this forum, now have loads on ignore.

It is only you that mentioned "extension leads" without any clarification as to what you meant. The original suggestion was for a non permanent caravan type lead with protection - so why muddy the waters by raising what you now say is an an unprotected extension lead. Your post#8 is confusing because you mention lack of chafe protection and fusing as reasons for what was being suggested as not being suitable - neither of which are true.

There was 40 minutes between VicS suggesting a protected caravan type lead and you posting a warning about "extension leads". Why? given that neither the OP not Vic had suggested running a "13A extension lead slung through a doorway" - that is a figment of your imagination.

I suggest you do need to check what you post to ensure that it is relevant and is fully explained, otherwise it is not surprising that others may question the relevance of what you are saying

 

[Tranona]

Yes true, but caravan installations have a Consumer unit with RCD and breakers between the feed cable and the onboard circuits. The pitch supply also has breakers and RCD. Many caravans have aluminimum bodies anyway, so that a short to the body could be rather - er - shocking! Belt and braces? Maybe, but as you say caravan electrocutions are very rare. so it seems to work.

I must say I dont like taking power tools on to my boat when it's afloat without an RCD somewhere in the line, having had a nasty jolt from a drill a great many years ago working aboard.

Bit of confusion here. We are not talking about permanent 240v systems in caravans which are essentially the same as on boats, but the lead suggested in post#2 which are aimed at campers and caravaners as free standing 240v supplies plugged into the site's power supply. As you see they come with an RCD and 3 socket outlets. commonly used by boats which do not have a built in consumer unit or for use in, say a yard for powering tools.

 

[GoatsonaBoat]

If I were to use a camper van style lead with rcd (for clarity sake) overnight etc would I be wise to add one of the in line galvanic isolators also or is this not required ? Should add I don’t plan on doing this forever but I don’t have much choice atm as mentioned before until boat is out of the water. I’m also using her 2/3 times a week so need to be charged overnight. Thanks.

 

[Refueler]

Oh dear ... are you guys never going to stop ?

There was 40 minutes between VicS suggesting a protected caravan type lead and you posting a warning about "extension leads". Why?

Actually not strictly true ... OP never stated clearly type of lead ...

simple fit and connect up via cable etc?

Which could mean just a plain cable and plug / socket as Post 3 is warning against ...

Post 2 of the safer option is accepted I am sure by "Boater Sam" .... the later comments about chafe etc. - sorry but I have to consider how the lead is entering the boat ... If the boat has no provision for cable entry - then chafe is possible ...

My 38 has socket for shore power in the transom locker ... the locker lid actually presses on the cable - its already caused a flat on the cable but luckily not chafing ... but it could so easily do so ....

Think its time for you guys to 'time out' and let OP use the info provided by many here and sort his installation ...

He has the info to create a reasonable solution.

 

[PaulRainbow]

If I were to use a camper van style lead with rcd (for clarity sake) overnight etc would I be wise to add one of the in line galvanic isolators also or is this not required ? Should add I don’t plan on doing this forever but I don’t have much choice atm as mentioned before until boat is out of the water. I’m also using her 2/3 times a week so need to be charged overnight. Thanks.

The only time you need a GI is if the incoming shore power Earth is connected to the water. The camping lead does not have such a connection.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Oh dear ... are you guys never going to stop ?



Actually not strictly true ... OP never stated clearly type of lead ...



Which could mean just a plain cable and plug / socket as Post 3 is warning against ...

Post 2 of the safer option is accepted I am sure by "Boater Sam" .... the later comments about chafe etc. - sorry but I have to consider how the lead is entering the boat ... If the boat has no provision for cable entry - then chafe is possible ...

My 38 has socket for shore power in the transom locker ... the locker lid actually presses on the cable - its already caused a flat on the cable but luckily not chafing ... but it could so easily do so ....

Think its time for you guys to 'time out' and let OP use the info provided by many here and sort his installation ...

He has the info to create a reasonable solution.

A shore power cable coming aboard has to be routed to avoid chafe, so same difference with any other cable.

Claims were also made that shore installation don't have "fuses", which is nonsense.

If people post nonsense on here they can expect to be picked up on it, it's a feature of internet forums.

 

[jac]

If people post nonsense on here they can expect to be picked up on it, it's a feature of internet forums.

I would add that in the case of something potentially dangerous like mains electricity then there is a moral duty to to pick up " unclear " posts that some may " miss- interpret." I'd far rather be accused of being rude to a forum member than letting some new person do something dangerous and end up hurting or killing someone.

 

[Refueler]

I would add that in the case of something potentially dangerous like mains electricity then there is a moral duty to to pick up " unclear " posts that some may " miss- interpret." I'd far rather be accused of being rude to a forum member than letting some new person do something dangerous and end up hurting or killing someone.

I agree wholeheartedly ... my last couple of posts are not to put down any other post - but just that I think a modicum of 'stepping back' is called for for some.