Fishing boat missing off channel islands

[fisherman]

what sort of radar cross section would a wooden trawler provide?

She had an aluminium shelterdeck and wheelhouse, large steel gantry and netdrum, should be a good echo.
I am minded of radar instruction years ago, if there's an echo there's almost certainly something there, if there isn't, doesn't mean there isn't.

 

[LadyInBed]

She had an aluminium shelterdeck and wheelhouse, large steel gantry and netdrum, should be a good echo

If that's not picked up on radar what chance does a yacht with a hanging reflector stand!

 

[Adios]

Collision between Condor ferry and trawler shown on time-lapse video from marine-tracker website

The fishing boat turned slightly into the direction of the ferry just before the collision but they were on pretty much a collision course for a while by the look of it. It looks very much like a watch failure on both boats but I can't understand the course correction of the FV, If you're changing direction you'd have a look ahead surely

 

[boomerangben]

As member of public - would you? Possibly especially if you are a regular traveller and have come to know five blasts usually means a yacht is in the way! As a sailor I’d notice any use of the horn. The AIS shows the ship making a sudden change of course immediately before/at the point of collision so I don’t think there is anything surprising in the claim from the passenger - the question will innevitably be should the action have been taken 5 minutes earlier.

I suspect the passenger was familiar with colregs. I too would notice the horn but not necessarily noticed how many blasts reliably. Used to last minute course changes as the ferry avoids pot buoys. Nothing unusual there.
Like you I find it strange the reported short time between blasts and the manoeuvres. I gather investigators are very cautious in putting huge weight on reports of eye witnesses.

 

[viago]

This looks pretty nasty.

I hope everyone is found ok

Fishing boat believed to have sunk after collision with ferry off Jersey coast

five long blasts then goodnight. force 7, dark and cold. pretty bloody horrible. they'll have to get the boat floated for the investigation.

is using cheap philipino labour the norm in the channel islands?

 

[Capt Popeye]

Might ask what other Ships Horn siginals are as long as 5 ; caus 5 is a lot more noticeable that 1 or 2 or 3 , so hard to get it wrong if a passenger

So my guess is that the ship horn did sound off 5 times ; if it was 6 blasts what would that denote ?

Unless the ships horn just gave a series of blasts , ( 4 to maybe 7) in panick , maybe ?

 

[WannabePirate]

....So my guess is that the ship horn did sound off 5 times ; if it was 6 blasts what would that denote ?

Unless the ships horn just gave a series of blasts , ( 4 to maybe 7) in panick , maybe ?

5 or more short blasts means danger. So basically any repeated, rapid, horn noises mean danger. I imagine so you can just start making the noise and not stop. Or to make doing it easy in a panic.

 

[newtothis]

If that's not picked up on radar what chance does a yacht with a hanging reflector stand! ☹

When doing a milebuilder we came out of a river in France and hit thick fog. AIS showed a commercial ship a few miles off. The instructor called him up out of interest to see if we were visible. We were on a 40 ft plastic boat but the OOW said we were showing up on his radar.

 

[ashtead]

Curious that if you saw a large condor ferry bearing down on you at say 17-20 knots you would not move away from it in a force 7 but I’m not a commercial skipper.

 

[Sandy]

In the days of AIS, this should NOT happen. Such a tragedy ?

AIS only lets you know what other vessels are about. You need human intervention to react to that information.

Two bridge crews were involved in this incident. Somehow with AIS, Radar and the Mk I eyeball two vessels collided. The MAIB will be all over this like a rash.

On about dawn on Saturday morning I was crossing the Thames Estuary. AIS showed that two vessels were inbound to London and over my visual horizon. The information AIS presented allowed my to mentally calculate vessel one would have passed the buoy I was heading for before making a 90° turn and vessel two was will over in the the channel. All great stuff as it gave me time to look for the lights in the grey light as I made my way to the buoy to make my turn.

 

[Adios]

AIS only lets you know what other vessels are about. You need human intervention to react to that information.

Two bridge crews were involved in this incident. Somehow with AIS, Radar and the Mk I eyeball two vessels collided. The MAIB will be all over this like a rash.

On about dawn on Saturday morning I was crossing the Thames Estuary. AIS showed that two vessels were inbound to London and over my visual horizon. The information AIS presented allowed my to mentally calculate vessel one would have passed the buoy I was heading for before making a 90° turn and vessel two was will over in the the channel. All great stuff as it gave me time to look for the lights in the grey light as I made my way to the buoy to make my turn.

in these days of AIS (seems like everyone on here has it now) is there more risk for boats without it, to be hit by a ship looking for AIS signals and seeing none assuming its clear? Seems likely. Every silver lining has a cloud.

 

[Wansworth]

So much time with head in the radar hood no time to look out the window

 

[Sandy]

in these days of AIS (seems like everyone on here has it now) is there more risk for boats without it, to be hit by a ship looking for AIS signals and seeing none assuming its clear? Seems likely. Every silver lining has a cloud.

There were two bridge crews involved in this and many other incident. I might glance at my Chart Plotter once every few minutes while on watch, I'd expect a ship to have at least two on the bridge.

 

[Sandy]

So much time with head in the radar hood no time to look out the window

Gosh, technology has moved on since the 1960's.

 

[Wansworth]

Gosh, technology has moved on since the 1960's.

Sorry,same applies not looking out the window

 

[ashtead]

The other aspect is you would expect on commercial AIS some form of proximity alarm ? I suspect the presence of a Condor ferry at a certain time in a certain location isn’t exactly unexpected surely?

 

[Adios]

The other aspect is you would expect on commercial AIS some form of proximity alarm ? I suspect the presence of a Condor ferry at a certain time in a certain location isn’t exactly unexpected surely?

If not proximity (can imagine it going off a lot coming near a harbour) at least a collision course alarm? Is it not smart enough for that?

 

[Jodel]

[

The MAIB will be all over this like a rash.

Neither were British boats nor was it in British waters so there will been no MAIB involvement unless requested by the Jersey authorities or Bahamas (Goodwill Flag State).

 

[C08]

One recalls the accident eleven years ago when the Condor Vitesse travelling at 40 knots in thick fog collided with a French fishing boat, killing its captain.
The Condor crew were just not paying attention.

That was sad - as recall the MAIB did not find any fault in the Condor captain doing 40 k in thick fog?

 

[Juan Twothree]

That was sad - as recall the MAIB did not find any fault in the Condor captain doing 40 k in thick fog?

That investigation was carried out by the Bahamas Maritime Authority.

https://www.bahamasmaritime.com/wp-...ween-the-Condor-Vitesse-and-Les-Marquises.pdf

The bridge team on the ferry were heavily criticised in the report, and the master and first officer were subsequently convicted of manslaughter in a French court.