First yacht advice please

[lpdsn]

From what I can gather from the net and my trusty 'Good yacht guide' for boats up to 27', the Anderson, Seal and Jaguar all appear to be good hulls with good performance.

The Anderson 22 has reportedly reached speeds of up to Mach 0.5 pointing within two degrees of the true wind. And it doesn't need to reef until somewhere on the cusp between a category 3 and a category 4 hurricane.

(By the way, this is an in-joke, but if you are interested in one you'll make one forumite very happy).

 

[pompeydave]

Er, yes I thought there was some ribbing going on from a search I did yesterday . I assume there are some real fans of these on here..

 

[sailorman]

Er, yes I thought there was some ribbing going on from a search I did yesterday . I assume there are some real fans of these on here..

Well there is certainly one supported hereabouts

 

[Seajet]

pompeydave,

while my choice would be obvious from my signature, I would urge you to inspect any lift keeler out of the water with the keel down, also check the contours of the hull as one on your list seems to have a problem, I've seen 2 lift keel examples ( obviously not Andersons ! ) with the hull sagging around the keel like a pudding...

If a lift keeler has been kept on a trailer or otherwise with keel up every winter and doesn't have a high cradle or trestles, ask yourself ' how was the keel plate maintained then ? '

Also, don't forget the cost of sails, this can be a significant factor with secondhand boats, not just for racing but general enjoyment and even handling and just getting to places; good but not fancy quality sails for my 22' are around £500 + each.

If you care to PM me with an e-mail address I can send a lot of info on the Anderson 22, and no I don't make a penny out of it.
Andy

 

[pompeydave]

Ah, interesting. If I looked at a boat with a lifting keel that needed replacing, what sort of cost am I looking at? I know a guy locally with his own fabrication business, so I assume its possible to make one up if the old one is available as a template?

 

[Seajet]

Thanks to support from the ex-M.D. of Andersons who knows the original suppliers - still going, amazingly - we have new keels ' on the shelf ' ready to go, last I heard about £1,300 for plate ( which is profiled not a flat slab ) and ballast bulb.

Before he came along I replaced my keel plate with a new one from a local marine steelworks, which cost much the same.

4 of the 182 Andersons built have required new keels inc mine, this may be a local issue with ' accelerated steel corrosion ', Portsmouth Uni' Marine Metallurgy Unit are on to this and came to look at my boat.

I have met owners of other lift keel boats setting off from the Solent for the Scillies, young family aboard, casually mention " Oh the keel fell out on the way from Portsmouth " !

The keel cannot simply drop out of an A22 even if the lift wire breaks, which I've never heard of.

Not happened with an A22 but it's definitely something to seriously check / have surveyed on any boat, as due to production costs most lift keelers are around late 1970's vintage.

Replacing the A22 keel is not difficult for anyone handy at DIY, and of course having a new keel enhances resale value, but it's not something I'd choose to do every weekend for fun.

With swinging pivoted keels, check the pivot point - both the pin and the hole in the plate - for wear, this can happen even when one is not aboard due to the boat joggling in waves on her mooring.

Don't be put off a lift keel though, twin keels can have horrible problems as well as drag, imagine the loads on splayed keels going in and out of mud twice a day...

 

[cid]

Look not to rain on your parade but I have had a Jag 22, Hunter Delta 24/25 now a Kelt 850 and 4 adults on board !!!!!. OK Jag,Anderson crowded down below, cockpit ok for Jag , anderson not so . Look go out with 4 and go on board the different boats and see how they fit then come back and look for info on performance. The Delta has a good performance/clever well arrangement for outboard/ keel comes right up inside and floats in 20 inches of water, so great to get off and on mooring

 

[lpdsn]

Look not to rain on your parade but I have had a Jag 22, Hunter Delta 24/25 now a Kelt 850 and 4 adults on board !!!!!. OK Jag,Anderson crowded down below, cockpit ok for Jag , anderson not so . Look go out with 4 and go on board the different boats and see how they fit then come back and look for info on performance. The Delta has a good performance/clever well arrangement for outboard/ keel comes right up inside and floats in 20 inches of water, so great to get off and on mooring

I think the OP was just talking about inviting mates who've expressed an interest, so if he invites four he'll be lucky if two turn up.

On the other hand, I've raced nine up on a half-tonner - I think the crew weighed more than the keel - so if he invites loads, he just has to set expectations about where they get to sit.

 

[ripvan1]

Someone mentioned the Centaur, but from what the OP says about financing I would suggest one of the smaller westerlies or macwesters.

 

[Seajet]

Look not to rain on your parade but I have had a Jag 22, Hunter Delta 24/25 now a Kelt 850 and 4 adults on board !!!!!. OK Jag,Anderson crowded down below, cockpit ok for Jag , anderson not so . Look go out with 4 and go on board the different boats and see how they fit then come back and look for info on performance. The Delta has a good performance/clever well arrangement for outboard/ keel comes right up inside and floats in 20 inches of water, so great to get off and on mooring

I've cruised for weekends with 4 adults aboard the A22, and 3 week trips with 3 adults, we were all still talking at the end.

So have indeed been out with full crews and compared performance over 37 years, the Anderson is not an all out racer but she compares well with others including much larger boats.

In fact I'd say the cockpit is a bit too big for a normal man & wife crew.

A good test on any boat is to lay down on the bunks, a glance isn't accurate enough; the A22 proved to have bigger bunks in every dimension than the Carter 30 I had for a few years.

I've seen 2 lift keel Jag 22's ashore with their hulls sagging around the lift keel stub.

Not raining on any parade here !

 

[V1701]

Some info on them on Yachtsnet Archive:

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives.htm

Trident 24 gets a good write-up & all things being equal would be my choice although I have no experience of any of them...

 

[pompeydave]

Would the Anderson be quicker than the Jag 22?

 

[PeteCooper]

Looking at the CYCA handicaps the A22 is a lot quicker. The Jag 22 is 25 and the A22 is 20.75 so just over 4 mins an hour faster.

 

[TSB240]

Looking at the CYCA handicaps the A22 is a lot quicker. The Jag 22 is 25 and the A22 is 20.75 so just over 4 mins an hour faster.

I suspect that the limited numbers raced will give very little indication of relative speed. I think it is simplistic to suggest that any boat that is 4mins an hour quicker is "a lot quicker"

In a cruising scenario 4 mins in an hour could be the difference of a decent set of sails , a better brain on the helm. Or if you hove to for "jimmy" or not...

The Anderson is slightly shorter LWL It has significantly less sail area to displacement and is slightly heavier.

I would dare to suggest that in lightish conditions the Anderson will be stickier! (usually confirmed by our forum expert)
The Jag will be a bit more responsive in lighter breezes.

In stronger winds I am sure the Anderson will out perform the Jag to windward probably not a lot in it off the wind

In a typical cruising scenario not much between them.

Our expert will naturally repeat his mantra of which one he would rather be caught out in a force 11 on a lee shore.

Most normal beings would probably prefer to be tied up firmly to a dock or would be looking to hitch a ride on a big yellow budgie to get us to safety if caught in those circumstances!

 

[pompeydave]

Ok, thanks again for the replies chaps. I'm basically trying to achieve as much bang for as little buck as possible. Actually, I'm finding it good fun trying to duck and dive to find the best bargain out there with a piffling £1000.

I have found a few that are worth a look, and several that would be money pits, so there are some good, saveable examples out there- it's just a case of which flavour boat will give me the most sailing enjoyment?

Difficult to quantify that I know, but that's my aim..

One area in which I am struggling when trying to choose a boat is sail configuration. I'd like to have a boat set up for solo sailing as I won't always have crew to assist. I can see that a roller reef jib helps in this respect, with a line heading aft for both 'tacks'?. Are there any aids for the solo sailor with regard to the main?

 

[Spyro]

Once the main is up and you need to tack it will do it itself when the boat comes round on to the new tack. What I wouldn't be without for solo sailing is a tiller pilot. It'll steer and tack/gybe while you do whatever else needs doing.

 

[V1701]

Without a great deal of effort you can bring the main halyard (raises & lowers the mainsail) back to the cockpit & if you then fit a stackpack & lazyjacks (you can make these yourself), you'll be able to raise & drop the main from the cockpit & tidy it up properly when moored. Or you can just sail with the foresail when singlehanded. A tillerpilot makes a world of difference. I would add that some boats are a lot easier than others for getting forward from the cockpit to the mast, you might want to factor that into your choice of boat. On my Albin Vega, e.g., it wasn't at all easy to get forward from the cockpit around the sprayhood & onto the side deck, lots of care required...

 

[pompeydave]

Right, thanks chaps. A quick wikipedia guide to tillerpilots has filled me in on what they do and how they work. It also filled in a blank whereby I had no idea what a 'rudder in the air' was for on yachts back in the 70's and 80's. I used to look at them as I went past in whatever fishing boat I had at the time and wonder what on earth they were for?

Re access, from bitter experience on motorboats I certainly value a decent footing, so yes, it's something I'm factoring in to my search.

Is this the sort of 'stackpack' you mean V1701? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMB-r4mtK1Q

 

[V1701]

Is this the sort of 'stackpack' you mean V1701? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMB-r4mtK1Q

It is, or you can just have the lazyjacks, which are the bits of string that stop the mainsail falling all over the deck & restricting your visibility forward when it's dropped. The stackpack is just the cloth bag to pack the sail away into & zips up so the mainsail is covered...

 

[Martin_W_Brown]

The really critical question is do you like the lines? It needs to be a beautiful shape Everything else can be fixed in time.