rmcnabb
New Member
What's your budget?
First sailboat
- Thread starter andylipsberg
- Start date
differentroads
Well-Known Member
I spent my first 30 years sailing 6 and 7m boats and the last 10 years sailing and now living on board my 10m boat. Sailing small boats was fun, taught me a lot and was very cheap. A 10m boat is big enough to live on, go anywhere in the world and feel comfortable while still having, on my low income, manageable cost of ownership. And easy to sail solo or with up to 3 crew. Any bigger increases luxury of course, but also costs.
Headroom can be a problem on a smaller boat though. Its amazing how you adapt but I occasionally hit my head in doorways even after 10 years. And the bunks are a bit on the short side. Boats at the shorter end of the range you mention are likely to be a bit slower than longer boats, too, though sail area and hull design will be key factors.
Headroom can be a problem on a smaller boat though. Its amazing how you adapt but I occasionally hit my head in doorways even after 10 years. And the bunks are a bit on the short side. Boats at the shorter end of the range you mention are likely to be a bit slower than longer boats, too, though sail area and hull design will be key factors.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Don't worry about it. I have owned 2 Bavarias (a 37 and a 33) both with in mast by Selden and sail single handed. Would not change back. Single handed (or short handed) sailing is all about knowing your limitations, forward planning and setting up your boat so you can deal efficiently with the main controls. Once you get outside harbour size becomes less of an issue - the main challenges are in mooring and berthing. So, in mast (or really well sorted reefing from the cockpit and a stackpack), winches accessible from the helm, a good autopilot, electric windlass and a bow thruster if you regularly moor in tricky situations.
Naturally I would recommend a Bavaria, and of the early 2000s models the 34 is probably the best all rounder, but 36 and 38 are also worth looking at, although the 38 is actually 40 and a much bigger and more complex boat. If your budget runs to it the 2012 on 33/34 is in my view one of the best and the newer rigs with smaller headsails are much easier to handle. Hanse are similar in this respect with self tacking jibs - the 342 hit the sweet point at the time as did the later 325 - that was my second choice after the Bavaria.
Hope this helps
Gwylan
Well-Known Member
Single handing then reefing from the cockpit is essential.
Again, if you are on your own an electric anchor windlass with remote control is pretty useful. Slight understatement.
Everything set up to run the boat from the helm. A good reliable and powerful autohelm.
Finally, the wisdom to know when conditions are going to test you or even exceed your capacity. Generally the boat rises to the challenge better than I do.
Enjoy.
Again, if you are on your own an electric anchor windlass with remote control is pretty useful. Slight understatement.
Everything set up to run the boat from the helm. A good reliable and powerful autohelm.
Finally, the wisdom to know when conditions are going to test you or even exceed your capacity. Generally the boat rises to the challenge better than I do.
Enjoy.
underdog
Well-Known Member
you might perhaps consider an Artekno H 323. There are 3 for sale in Finland at the moment:
www.nettivene.com/en/h-323
A 32 foot sister of the International H boat. With her self tacking jib easily managed singlehanded or for the inexperienced. Good sailing performance. I regularly cruise mine on the Westcoast of Ireland and Scotland
Another possibility is H 35 by the same builder
www.nettivene.com/en/h-35
www.nettivene.com/en/h-323
A 32 foot sister of the International H boat. With her self tacking jib easily managed singlehanded or for the inexperienced. Good sailing performance. I regularly cruise mine on the Westcoast of Ireland and Scotland
Another possibility is H 35 by the same builder
www.nettivene.com/en/h-35
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Sorry when I wrote that I'd missed that you may not be UK based so probably less of a problem!
lustyd
Well-Known Member
It really isn't. I spent 10 years on a boat with only the sheets in the cockpit and most of my sailing was solo. My new boat has all lines to the cockpit but is harder to sail solo for several reasons when compared to the old boat
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Stuffy little cockpit with 4 in it.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
‘Sailboat’ is the nautical equivalent of ‘bathroom’ as a euphemism and if you are not American marks you out as someone addicted to Netflix.
There are plenty of sailing boats of all sizes in the Baltic but anything much over 38’ may limit the moorings available, especially boxes, though vast boxes exist in some places. There are handling issues involved with sailing in and out of Baltic harbours and larger boats can require experience to avoid difficulty. For someone with little or no experience, a boat in the low 30s range will be quite enough of a handful.
As for choice, any boat from a major builder will do the job. There are really very few ‘bad’ boats, so much of the choice comes down to accommodation and just whether or not the boat appeals to you.
There are plenty of sailing boats of all sizes in the Baltic but anything much over 38’ may limit the moorings available, especially boxes, though vast boxes exist in some places. There are handling issues involved with sailing in and out of Baltic harbours and larger boats can require experience to avoid difficulty. For someone with little or no experience, a boat in the low 30s range will be quite enough of a handful.
As for choice, any boat from a major builder will do the job. There are really very few ‘bad’ boats, so much of the choice comes down to accommodation and just whether or not the boat appeals to you.
andylipsberg
Active Member
Not above 70 K, but ideally around 50 K.
andylipsberg
Active Member
which are the bad ones to your understanding and why?
andylipsberg
Active Member
interesting. I check technical data, good boats actually. Not too heavy, not too light. No idea how they sail, but with parameters beats Bavaria 31 cruiser.
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
You mention you have day skipper qualification.
Who you be sailing with friends, girlfriend, wife, or wife and family.
I am aware of a few with the wish to go sailing start but due to lack of comfort or facilities on boat end up sailing on their own or give up.
For this reason after dinghy racing with wife and some sailing holidays in Greece we started with a modern 36' and now have a 43' which we have lived aboard for last 12 months!
I suggest if you want family to sail with you a priority is to introduce them to sailing in the most enjoyable way and enable you to try out a few boats by doing a sailing holiday in Greece.
You will have a better idea after then whether you want a size of boat for a family, for just 2 or for solo sailing.
Its a factor a number miss in fulfilling their dreams that is why the majority of sailors are men and many married sailors end up solo sailors!!
Who you be sailing with friends, girlfriend, wife, or wife and family.
I am aware of a few with the wish to go sailing start but due to lack of comfort or facilities on boat end up sailing on their own or give up.
For this reason after dinghy racing with wife and some sailing holidays in Greece we started with a modern 36' and now have a 43' which we have lived aboard for last 12 months!
I suggest if you want family to sail with you a priority is to introduce them to sailing in the most enjoyable way and enable you to try out a few boats by doing a sailing holiday in Greece.
You will have a better idea after then whether you want a size of boat for a family, for just 2 or for solo sailing.
Its a factor a number miss in fulfilling their dreams that is why the majority of sailors are men and many married sailors end up solo sailors!!
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andylipsberg
Active Member
well, once I sort out for the jammed furler myself for the first time, then my anxiety will be gone.
I'm looking at boats of age 10-15 years max, Bavaria, Dufour, Beneteau. I'll be also fine if get a nice boat 31ft - 36ft range.
Older boats just ecstatically i don't like, many are worn out. Same as Hanse, just don't like as it looks. I start to like the idea even about 31ft, for few years I might not need anything bigger probably. I have been driving small cars for 20 years, I had a dream of something bigger but never actually needed even when I could afford it. maybe same story with the sailboat.
andylipsberg
Active Member
I have sailed Lagoon 450 in Greece with friends, that's a nice boat but way too big. I have sailed some 7m sailboats some where sporty and fast, some old 7m sailboats with outboard engine and no facilities, total crap which I would only daysail in the bay.
For racing I will get on a Laser dinghy or some other owner boats, but cruising I want to do relaxed with comfort and amenities for toilet, shower, sleeping and cooking.
I have coastal skipper license 60nm from the coast which I after one summer I get captains license once I build the miles and experience.
andylipsberg
Active Member
headroom is very important for all people in a long run, tall people are being bent by gravity alone and if you have to struggle with the ceiling of a yacht that's an additional struggle. 31ft will make 6.5 knots at it's best, maybe 7. I'm fine with that.
9-11 meter is exactly the boat I'm looking for. Ideally 10.
dansaskip
Well-Known Member
I agree with lustyd here. Hoist and reef at the mast would always be my advice. I am not a fan of inmast reefing either as have seen many cruisers having troubles with theirs and to fix them they allways seem to have to call out an expert, expensive and often inconvenient . Keep it simple hass always been a good strategy to adopt.
As others have said better to start out with a smaller boat being easier to handle and manage particularly in say berthing.
I dont quite agree with all of Tranona's points but he has got it spot on when he says - "Single handed (or short handed) sailing is all about knowing your limitations, forward planning and setting up your boat so you can deal efficiently with the main controls.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Just don't recognise this, about either size or inmast/controls from the cockpit. Why do you need to go running to the mast to raise sails, or worse still to reef. Reefing is required when things get a bit lively and the last thing you want to do is go to the mast when on your own, particularly in a small boat. A larger boat is usually more stable and forgiving, with the right gear (bow thruster) and good planning berthing is manageable. Those who have problems with in mast it is usually because they don't read the manual. They are simple devices and allow you infinite adjustment of sail area (like furling headsails) from the comfort and security of the cockpit. Once you have sailed a well set up boat such as I describe you will appreciate the benefits - particularly if you are a pensioner of long standing who wants to keep sailing as long as possible.
Useful also for young new entrants as it shows that you don't have to go through the "traditional" apprenticeship of dinghy, then 3 or 4 little cruisers of increasing size before you are allowed a decent size family cruiser. Equally plenty of older newcomers don't have time for that and have no difficulty going straight into a modern cruiser.
ashtead
Well-Known Member
I do wonder how much actual choice is out there as if you are looking for a 10. 5 metre boat say at a set budget the real variable would seem to be age initially and your fondness for maintenance plus the space you want.
So taking say50k will let’s say give you a large brand manufacturer such as Bavaria or Hanse of say x years whereas if you look at say a Hallberg it will be x plus say 6 years. Now you might not be daunted by issues with an older boat ( teak decks with plug issues,tired sails,higher engine hours,damp smells, worn heads ,outdated electronics ,no AIS or modern radar say, rigging needs replacing etc) and regarded such matters as all part of owning a boat and their enjoyment plus you budget for what could be expensive items . If you are and want more space below and don’t enjoy the country cottage charm of say a small Najad then for you money a new BenBavHanse type will suit and should give you more sailing time. When we started looking for a boat in 2000 we initially went round quite a few makes at second hand boat shows but end up buying new Bav as while the sailing wasn’t a worry we wanted to spend time sailing and not tinkering over the marine equivalent of a bonnet. We enjoyed that boat for 14 years and then wanted more space however there is a big difference as between a 10m sigh boat and say 12-13 metres in terms of expense of running etc leaving alone berthing issues .
The next point is your crew size and your personal size-if you plan to sail with a partner and 2 children your choices will have factors different to those who have no child plans and single hand etc. If you are tall say 6foot 3inches then you will find many boats too low I guess. If you are built like a prop forward then door and table width size might influence. Also just be mindful of any partner “ domestic” requirements.
So one way forward is to set some criteria as to needs . Remember many move on from their day 1 “sailboat” so I would be sticking to a mass market nearly new boat say5 years old as a search criteria and more bangs for buck compared to heavier Nordic boats.
Self tacking headsail is great ,plus heating, cockpit tent and if you are going for say 11m plus a bowthruster but smaller probably don’t need I suspect most will say. Whichever model you go for you might look to see if larger engine spec was offered. Clearly it helps if you have a sailing friend to look over any choices with you before you go to expense of survey. Also remover owners fora are a source of info if not totally unbiased advice. I am currently following on utube a couple in US looking at a boat to buy and while they seem to be looking at42ft some of the points they make might be of interest for your searches.
So taking say50k will let’s say give you a large brand manufacturer such as Bavaria or Hanse of say x years whereas if you look at say a Hallberg it will be x plus say 6 years. Now you might not be daunted by issues with an older boat ( teak decks with plug issues,tired sails,higher engine hours,damp smells, worn heads ,outdated electronics ,no AIS or modern radar say, rigging needs replacing etc) and regarded such matters as all part of owning a boat and their enjoyment plus you budget for what could be expensive items . If you are and want more space below and don’t enjoy the country cottage charm of say a small Najad then for you money a new BenBavHanse type will suit and should give you more sailing time. When we started looking for a boat in 2000 we initially went round quite a few makes at second hand boat shows but end up buying new Bav as while the sailing wasn’t a worry we wanted to spend time sailing and not tinkering over the marine equivalent of a bonnet. We enjoyed that boat for 14 years and then wanted more space however there is a big difference as between a 10m sigh boat and say 12-13 metres in terms of expense of running etc leaving alone berthing issues .
The next point is your crew size and your personal size-if you plan to sail with a partner and 2 children your choices will have factors different to those who have no child plans and single hand etc. If you are tall say 6foot 3inches then you will find many boats too low I guess. If you are built like a prop forward then door and table width size might influence. Also just be mindful of any partner “ domestic” requirements.
So one way forward is to set some criteria as to needs . Remember many move on from their day 1 “sailboat” so I would be sticking to a mass market nearly new boat say5 years old as a search criteria and more bangs for buck compared to heavier Nordic boats.
Self tacking headsail is great ,plus heating, cockpit tent and if you are going for say 11m plus a bowthruster but smaller probably don’t need I suspect most will say. Whichever model you go for you might look to see if larger engine spec was offered. Clearly it helps if you have a sailing friend to look over any choices with you before you go to expense of survey. Also remover owners fora are a source of info if not totally unbiased advice. I am currently following on utube a couple in US looking at a boat to buy and while they seem to be looking at42ft some of the points they make might be of interest for your searches.
jwilson
Well-Known Member
Sailing singlehanded is easy enough in almost any boat, whether it has lines back to cockpit or not, inmast furling or not, etc. It's getting in and out of marina berths singlehanded that is the difficult bit, and not something that someone doing sailing courses usually gets a chance to practice.
Of course the OP might be aiming to normally box berth in the Baltic, which might be slightly easier but still not a trivial job on your own.
Of course the OP might be aiming to normally box berth in the Baltic, which might be slightly easier but still not a trivial job on your own.
