First Passage

[Stemar]

Next year – Probably June/July, SWMBO and I want to visit Dinan. The boat is an aging, but sound Snapdragon 24. It’ll be my first real passage as skipper, (I've been across to Cherbourg 2 or 3 times as crew) and SWMBO knows what I’ve taught her, which means she could stand a watch once the sails are set up and autopilot on, and call me if anything goes wrong. She has back problems, and is unlikely to be up to the rigours of a formal course.

Current plan is to do a test run to Cherboug with experienced crew in May to see how the boat does. If all is well, the (very) tentative passage plan looks like this:

Days 1 & 2:
Leave Portsmouth early evening. If we can hold a course for Cherbourg from Nab or thereabouts, go that way. If it’d be better via the Needles, OK, but leave earlier.

Alternative ports Omonville la Rogue or Braye, depending on wind. Plan C would be St Vaast.

Basic idea would be if I can hold my course and keep 4 knots on the GPS, sail. If not motorsail and look for 4.5-5 knots (I’ve plenty of engine power – 28Hp!)

Get through the westbound shipping and put SWMBO on watch with instructions to call me if she sees anything, wind changes or whatever. Back on duty in time for the E’bound marine M25.

Make sure I’m going to be uptide of my port as I get near it.

Large aperitif, lunch, snooze, large aperitif, dinner

Day 3: Cherbourg - Recover from days 1& 2!

Day 4: Cherbourg - Barneville Leave 2-3 hrs before high and turn left. Keep close inshore until tide turns. At 2deg. W, turn left. Roller-coaster with the tide through the Alderney Race. Should I keep close in to W of the Cap de la Hague or go closer to Alderney?

Alternative ports: Portbail, Beaucette or St Peter Port

Day 5 Barneville – Granville or St Helier, with the other as an alternative.

Day 6 Granville/St Helier – St Malo - possibly anchor in the bay between Lanciux and St Jacut – a well sheltered bay W of Dinard. Are there any moorings to pick up or can one anchor in the Rance Estuary off Dinard?

Day 7 St Malo – Dinan

Return trip would be the reverse of the above.

As far as weather’s concerned, if the forecast has a 5 or more, go back to bed/go to the bar/go sightseeing.

What do the wiser/more experienced heads on the forum think? How can this be improved, or should I burn it and take the ferry?

Also, does anyone have any idea of the fuel consumption I can expect from a Volvo 2003 running around half throttle?


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[Evadne]

Sounds good. 28hp in a snapdragon, can you waterski behind that? You must burn quite a bit of fuel - a gallon per hour at 4.5 knots perhaps? Isn't there a formula (rule of thumb) of a pint per 4hp or something like that?

Have a look at the tides etc. If you end up in St. Vaast, the tides are not favourable for leaving from the marina and getting very far past Omonville before they turn against you, I would say. Omonville is a delightful little place, though, at least it was when I was last there, but open to the north.

Otherwise it sounds like you've got it covered, plenty of time allowed and days of rest between the long passages. We sail in a similar style -SWMBO can steer for hours while I navigate or make tea, but won't stand a watch on her own, and apart from the boredom, crossing the channel at 4kts is not a trial. Have a good trip.


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[tcm]

all looks ok, cept for "first real passage as skipper" bit. Does this mean you don't count interminable solent trips?

I would also prefer that youhave a better idea of fuel consumption. Spose you carry 10 galls, so motor along with spare 5 galls and measure how much to refuel after 2 hours, say. I wd guess 1/2-1 gal per hour.

Your two "base" ports are cherbourg and st malo - cos you can dump boat and ferry back. or pick up crew. or whatever. St peter port is also a possible base to leave a boat and return later if winds blow up.

I wd be more flexible either in going, or going further right from the start.

Reason for this is that if (say) on day three you nip into an internet caff to look at www.wetterzentral.de for long terms satellite picws, and it shows iffy weather developing by day 6 ish...then you may not feel like bashing on further - cos then you'll be stuck in st malo, your final target. Whcih means stuck in cherbourgish for a whole weeek, sort of.

So, praps consider having (yet another) additional plan for benign sunny conditions and go straight on for st malo. Which, iwould venture is a lot better place to be stuck for a week than cherbourg. Decide when nearer the time, or even halfway across.

Spose this is "sailing towards" rather than sailing "to" somewhere again.

alll imho.

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[AIDY]

If I'm heading for the bay of st malo i always favour a trip from yarmouth to braye just over 60 ish N/m. If you leave yarmouth hour before HW you can get 7 hours of favourable tide towards your destination. I always plot at six knots and would make good progress of 7 - 8 knots towards braye on a spring tide. The only thing you have to watch is the tide on your approach to braye need to be west of alderney or your end up in Cherb. very quickly.

Then a couple of short passages down to St P, St H, Then Stmalo



<hr width=100% size=1>/forums/images/icons/wink.gif <font color=blue> Regards Andy </font color=blue>

 

[Robin]

Nothing wrong with your plans though I might do it slightly different. Personally I think Omonville is a dump, known as the Omonny Ville horror after missing the tide off there once on our way back from St Peter Port late on the tide! In any case it is so close to Cherbourg that if you can get there you can make Cherbourg. My route would be to Cherbourg via Nab or needles (decide when you know the wind direction). Cherbourg has refuelling facilities which you might need if you have been motorsailing a big engine small tank.

Then Cherbourg to St Peter Port, leave Cherbourg at HW Cherbourg, there is an inshore eddy runs along to Cap De La Hague and you should get there about slack water in Alderney Race, don't turn too soon down the plughole but head across to the Alderney side more, this allows for the tendency of the tide down the bottom to set you towards sark (important if the wind is SW, you will have to turn into the wind otherwise to get back on track). As an alternative it is pefectly possible to make St Helier direct from Cherbourg on one tide, by taking the inshore eddy as above then keeping up around 5kts boatspeed , by the time you reach the SW corner of Jersey, the tide will have turned and will carry you along the bottom of the island. If not St Peter Port to St Helier is a doddle, though you will need to leave from outside of the marina to take the tide, so either stay out on the pontoon in the harbour or go out when there is water over the sill and onto the waiting pontoons. On the return trip, it is NOT possible to do Jersey to Cherbourg on a tide so go back via St Peter Port. From St Peter port you leave for Cherbourg as soon as you can get out of the marina (-2.5hrs HW St PP or 3hrs before HW from outside pontoons) you should easily do this on the tide at 4kts boatspeed plus BUT do not go south of east until east of Omonville or you will fall foul of the Omonny Ville horror - the inshore eddy. Another option is to go from St Peter Port to Alderney same timings, go through the Swinge (hold on to your drinks) then Alderney to Cherbourg and home from there or straight home if you wish. Going home from Cherbourg means you will not need to clear customs in the UK and fly 'Q' as you would from the Channel Islands which are not EU. The bit I missed is Jersey to St Malo, deciding which way round the Minquiers you will go depends on the tide at time you want to leave and the wind direction, probably you will go westabout. On the return a nice diversion is to call into Isle Chaussey for an hour or two, go in by the south entrance and out by the more difficult (shallow) north entrance, just make sure you leave with enough water to get out!

Going cross channel overnight with your wife shouldn't be a problem but probably she might be happier if you catnap in the cockpit rather than disappear totally down below. The shipping lanes are really the line between the Casquets TSS and to Dover TSS, they are not set in stone and ships will 'peel off' to or from Le Havre or the Solent/Nab. Roughly they are 5mls across and with 3 mls of no mans land in between. If it is your first encounter you will see the ships before you get there and seemingly nose to tail so although 5 mls across you will feel like you are in the first lane for nearer 10 miles. Very often you can cross without having to change course. If you have right of way as you will at the first lane hold your course until sure the ship isn't going to alter, then go behind it with a positive alteration ionitially to show him you have altered. IMO don't make alerations too soon as you will be dodging one (maybe by too much) and creating a problem with the next one.

Have a great time!

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[snowleopard]

chill out....

good plan, but beware a temptation to stick rigidly to the plan. you will enjoy the experience much more if you accept up front that it won't actually happen like that.

weather may thwart you or a chat with the boat in the next berth may persuade you to do something different. if you accept that, great. if you feel cheated at not succeeding in the original plan your trip will be spoiled.

hang loose, go with the flow and above all enjoy yourself!

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[AIDY]

Re: chill out....

Would totally agree only have very loose plans.

Plans never happen, plan day by day once you are across the pond.

<hr width=100% size=1>/forums/images/icons/wink.gif <font color=blue> Regards Andy </font color=blue>

 

[Andy_H]

Looks pretty good to me - my only comment would be do you really want to do a night passage for your first crossing as skipper, especially with a relatively unexperienced crew? I must admit, these days I find a daylight crossing less tiring. In May, you should have plenty of daylight. Leave Portsmouth/Yarmouth at first light (0500 ish) and you should have plenty of time to make a daylight landfall at Cherbourg.
Cherbourg to Jersey is a straight forward passage, catch the eddy along the Cherbourg peninsular, to arrive at Cap de la Hague at slack water, then take the ebb down to Jersey. If you're running a bit slow, you can call in at Guernsey. Jersey to St Malo is then a single tide passage.
Just my thoughts for what they're worth. Have fun.

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[Stemar]

Re: can you waterski behind that?

My old MD1 died, and the price was very right for the 2003. It's caused a fair number of comments similar to yours. Current favourite, once I get the right prop on her, is one of those big water skis under each keel...

Now, what's the procedure for overtaking the fast ferries?

More seriously, many thanks for all the replies. My reason for thinking of a night passge is that at 4 knots, I'm looking at around 18 hours Portsmouth to Cherbourg, and I want to arrive in daylight. I've done the overnight thing before and would almost rather deal with the crossing traffic at night when I can tell the headings better.

As far as fuel is concerned, I think a full tank (10 gals) and another 15 gals in cans that I can syphon into the tank, heaving to to do it, if necessary, should be enough. I do like the idea of running a couple for hours from a full tank to measure consumption is a good idea. I'll certainly do that.

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[jonlaw]

Plans !!!!

I bought my first yacht in Jan 2003 at Hamble point.
Put togeather my PLAN to sail it home to Lough Swilly, Donegal.
The first part of the plan was to leave it at Hamble Point for one month, so launched the boat, put her on the berth, then went to pay - that'll be £688 sir !!
I nearly had a heart attack ! I negotiated two weeks for £288, then sailed it to plymouth where a friend of mine let me have a mooring up at the Spaniards.
It sat there until the first week of April, the next PLAN, leave Plymouth at 11 PM on a Friday night, first stop Dublin !
I spent so much time PLANNING, food, gear, batteries, safety, fuel, water, etc
We set off, I was to take the first watch, so I offered my two crew(naval friends) a cup of tea before bed, "who's got a light "? nobody
My two 'friends' turned in disgusted.
We had to stop at Mousal(wrong spelling) the next morning.
My friend John rowed ashore to get the matches, he rowed back, about ten yards from the boat, he threw the matches, they went into the sea !
Guess what, he had three more packets ! Ha Ha not
The rest of the trip did go as PLANNED except we had little wind from the South of Ireland all the way to Donegal. One mile away from my marina, we ran out of fuel. Not PLANNED !!



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[Gunfleet]

Done it in a Snapdragon 24. Then we went through the canal all the way to the river Vilaine and Arzal. Then we had a summer sailing in the Morbihan and the bay of Quiberon. You'd better watch it... you may never come back.

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[Gunfleet]

Two points, Robin. Have you tried to find a customs officer to report to on your return from the channel islands? It's hard work. I made a load of phone calls after making the journey from St Peter Port to Brighton and eventually gave up. Also, Omonville is the burial place of the poet Jacques Prevert. For some reason i couldn't get jimi & para to make the pilgimage with me during the Cherbourg trip in September! Maybe next year.

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[Robin]

I think all you need do re customs from the Channel Islands is fly 'Q' and fill in the customs forms. If nobody comes within a couple of hours take down the yellow flag and pop the forms in the nearest customs mailbox, we have one at our club marina. Ideally you should phone them but all you will ever get now is a voicemail message asking you to leave your arrival place/time/boatname/wherefrom etc. Personally if time allows I find it easier to stop off in France and go home from there which avoids prying eyes/paperwork and also takes the Alderney Race tide gate out of the cross channel equation. On the occasions we have gone straight home we haven't been visited by HMCE. A couple of years back we did try contacting them with their immigration hat on, because we had USA visitors on board and did the CI/Cherbourg circuit, I wanted to know the implications of taking non-EU nationals across borders. Try as we could I could not find a live HMCE voice to talk to, either nobody answered phones or you got the voicemail reportin procedure message. In the end we gave up and went anyway and nobody bothered us (but returned via France just in case!)

Omonville is a very tiny harbour and very limited room to stay, we only stayed a few hours until the tide turned having been stuck off Base Brefort (I think) buoy motorsailing at 8kts and the only thing changing was BTW, the DTW wouldn' budge! I'm told there is a good restaurant (maybe the only restaurant) there but didn't try it, actually didn't go ashore and have kept well clear ever since.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[Stemar]

Re: Q flag

Do I need to go through any formalities going into France from CI? I would seem logical that the formalities would be at whatever point I reenter the EU

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[Gunfleet]

Anse de St Martin

A very experienced channel islands sailor suggested the anse to me as a good place to rest or wait for a tide. It's a bit further on than Omonville and right under the cap. Sometimes with a boat that is confined to 4 knots you have to have more alternative plans than usual. I think our friend at the top of the thread is being very ambitious allowing seven days to make that journey to Dinan. But it can be done.

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[Robin]

Re: Q flag

Now let's be realistic here, logic and France in one sentence?

In theory yes you should fly 'Q' when you enter France from the Channel Islands since you are arriving in the EU from a non EU territory. However in practice French Customs are not interested at all in a British yacht just in from the CI, indeed I have heard that they find it irritating in as much as it might oblige them to go visit. Certainly the unofficial Alderney to Cherbourg shopping bus mobo arrives regularly without flying 'Q' and whilst I have seen a lot of very correct Brits doing it have yet to see a returning French boat with one up. All we do is put up the French courtesy flag, there isn't even a question asking last port of call on the form for the Capitanerie/harbour dues.

However you ARE supposed to fly 'Q' if arriving from one Channel Island to another and you will be given a customs form by the harbourmaster on arrival, you need to fill this in and either give it to the customs people (often out and about in a dory) or back via the HM man or post it in one of the special boxes on each marina ramp or dinghy landing. Once done you may take down the 'Q' flag. The CI form will as you to list all dutiable goods on board (booze/cigs etc) even though it will remain on board for personal consumption.



<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[Robin]

Re: Anse de St Martin

I can understand that planning at 4kts makes a difference and I've been there too, early days with a Halcyon 23 and a Trident 24. However if you keep up 4kts boatspeed even if that needs engine assist, the CI tides enable you to cover much greater distances. We frequently do the trip down or up at that speed or less if the wind is very light, the difference now being we are chosing to keep sailing when most are motoring.

I know there are anchorages like Anse de St Martin that are useable but if leaving from Cherbourg and taking the inshore eddy you will arrive at Cap De La Hague +/- at slack water. If you left from Anse de St Martin you would still target Cap de La Hague at slack water so it just means you leave a couple of hours later, it hasn't enabled you to go farther, only to cut out a bit of time at the start but in getting to Anse St Martin in the first place you have probably added another day.

Also I would advise newcomers to the tides around this area to keep well off Cap De La Hague, the fastest tide in Alderney Race (we have had 9kts) is close on that side as are some of the roughest overfalls. The best COG for the passage CHBG - STt PP is to go inshore along the coast (obviously outside of the various buoys like Basse Brefort) using the back eddy then head up NW 'ish off Cap De La H, arriving at around slack, heading not S of W until 2/3rds across towards Alderney, then head on down. This avoids the worst overfall areas, but also is the quickest route normally as the 'down' tide is now on your tail directly and not over the stbd quarter and you will not be set towards Sark at the bottom which forces an ever increasing turn westwards to correct, usually straight into the wind!

I think we also forget that average boat sizes have increased considerably in recent years. When I first cruised the CI area, 24 footers were the norm, Pageants, Eventides, Tridents, Achilles, Snapdragons and so on in abundance, nowadays people feel obliged to ask if it can be done in something that size! Well of course it can, it just takes a bit more weather planning and a bit more time but at least now there is GPS as well.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: Anse de St Martin

We agree, I just wondered about cutting down the hours at sea. I haven't used the anse myself but I have sailed a Snapdragon 24 from Cherbourg to St Helier and I was bloody tired when I got there! I still sail a 26 foot boat now but one which is a bit better to sail (!)

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[Robin]

Re: Anse de St Martin

I don't find that the time is the tiring factor it is more the concentration factor that is. In the 'old' days prior to Decca and GPS and when a £25 Seafix RDF was the beez neez, poor vis around the Channel Islands was very tiring! It took a while too to realise that compass heading is largely meaningless even if you make an attempt to work out what to steer from the tidal atlas to maintain a course. It was transits and maintaining constant visual or RDF bearings that mattered most, nowadays we have off track errors and COG to match BTW, even pilots that can follow a ground track.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>