First Pan Pan experience

[Neil]

Why do a pan pan? Why not just call the coastguard and appraise them of your situation?

I don't know enough about sailing, so it's a genuine question. I thought those calls were for emergencies?

The time my boat was taking on water, and which I was certain was engine related, I just called the coastguard to let them know and to say I was sailing on to Crosshaven where I could have it looked at. Of course, they insisted on sending out the life boat, who were so happy to be called out.

I sailed on with the promise to call in every half hour (I forgot after the first hour )

The issue was easy to sort once I'd found it (telltale tube off its spigot), and the CG followed up and called me later at Crosshaven to make sure I was OK.

 

[jonjo]

If the OP was 25(ish) miles due south of The Needles he would have been either very close to or actually in the west flowing traffic lane so perhaps a Pan-Pan was a good idea thereby alerting big ships of his predicament (assuming the buggers were listening!!!).

The OP does not mention concern about big ships or immediate danger of collision, the criteria for defining distress do not mention "perhaps". The OP's concerns were over the inconvenience of missing a tidal gate and a perception that in 4 hours times sailing through the Needles channel with a fickle following wind would be a demanding sailing/pilotage exercise. He had multiple alternatives available and so the situation was below the threshold of Pan-Pan.

 

[Resolution]

The OP does not mention concern about big ships or immediate danger of collision, the criteria for defining distress do not mention "perhaps". The OP's concerns were over the inconvenience of missing a tidal gate and a perception that in 4 hours times sailing through the Needles channel with a fickle following wind would be a demanding sailing/pilotage exercise. He had multiple alternatives available and so the situation was below the threshold of Pan-Pan.

We don't know the size or type of yacht in which the OP was sailing, but a late arrival at the Needles on Friday (ie anytime after 2000 hrs) would have seen a twenty plus knot wind against neap tide situation. Probably OK because it was only neaps, but I bet there were some hefty standing waves at the shingles then. Definitely more risky than just an inconvenience.
One other point; there quite a few yachts in the Western Solent and I expect there were some out in the Channel along with the OP. By issuing a Pan Pan any of these could have picked up his message and there could well have been one with enough engineering expertise to offer advice or even assistance to the OP. No downside in asking for help, so why not issue the Pan Pan?
Peter

 

[Uricanejack]

Just my 2 pence worth

If stuck with a dead engine and a lack of wind on a sailing vessel in a traffic lane
You are not restricted in ability to manoeuvre or nuc

The appropriate call would be a security

Just advising where you are and your limitation or no call at all

 

[Fantasie 19]

Bully for you Jack. Are you familiar with the Needles channel? Are you a relatively inexperienced skipper with a seasick crew? It's just the sort of situation which is easy to deride from a cosy armchair but very stressful in reality.

Well said... there's always an 'expert' around on here... As someone else said, it was the OP's decision, he was there, he knew the situation, he made the call - well done, I say....

 

[Uricanejack]

If you call pan pan what do you expect the rest of us to do?

If you hear pan pan what would you do?

If I hear pan pan I take the view some poor unlucky sod on a boat is dealing with an emergency which while currently under controls could get worse
I divert and stand by
I will turn round and head back out and stand by until the situation is resolved and I am stood down

Hence my question why pan pan for a. Vessel which is currently safe
There is no need to aproach a dangerous tide rip bar eft sail to a safe location

 

[bitbaltic]

We don't know the size or type of yacht in which the OP was sailing

That's the important point, because we don't know whether he was able to make acceptable passage speed back to the Solent under sail alone, so much of the speculation is moot. The wind direction would have him sailing free to either the Western or Eastern solent (or many other destinations) so the degree of danger somewhat hangs on how the boat was doing. At the end of the day the OP was reaching for the engine because he thought he might not have enough wind, so I guess that answers it to some degree.

If I had engine failure in that situation I'd like to think that (after having a good old panic) I would work out a CTS for a safe destination and some predicted EPs in order to quantify just how much trouble I was likely to be in, before getting on with the engine troubleshooting and the calls to the coastguard, because if all else fails it gives you a plan to get home and if things start going off that plan you know when and why to escalate. But I'll freely admit that's hindsight and the OP did what was right for him, boat and crew to get home without issue. That's a win in my book.

 

[jamieo]

The OP does not mention concern about big ships or immediate danger of collision, the criteria for defining distress do not mention "perhaps". The OP's concerns were over the inconvenience of missing a tidal gate and a perception that in 4 hours times sailing through the Needles channel with a fickle following wind would be a demanding sailing/pilotage exercise. He had multiple alternatives available and so the situation was below the threshold of Pan-Pan.

Yes - I was in the middle of the west bound traffic at the time. I had an AIS receiver, but not transmitter, and was actively tracking ships both visually and via AIS. At the time I was not overly concerned at manoeuvring the large ship traffic under just sail. Without the engine we had perhaps less options, but were adequately anticipating shipping. The impact avoiding shipping was more on our timing and approach to the Needles. This was added risk but being managed as part of the overall situation.

My main rationale for the Pan Pan was that, having failed to resolve the situation, with the (3) books onboard indicating it could be a seized engine/gearbox which was not going to be able to be restarted, we would very likely get into a position where we did need assistance in the coming hours and there were risks the situation could worsen. As per other advice, starting with a Ch 67 CG call may have been a better choice but I don't feel it was a mistake to issue the Pan Pan.

 

[LadyInBed]

Re the initial engine problem, does your engine have a decomposition leaver?
If so, turning the engine over decompressed might have been an alternative to using the spanner.
Re the PP - good call.

Edit - decomposition - where the hell did that come from? Pooter must have a mind of its own

 

[jamieo]

That's the important point, because we don't know whether he was able to make acceptable passage speed back to the Solent under sail alone, so much of the speculation is moot. The wind direction would have him sailing free to either the Western or Eastern solent (or many other destinations) so the degree of danger somewhat hangs on how the boat was doing. At the end of the day the OP was reaching for the engine because he thought he might not have enough wind, so I guess that answers it to some degree.

If I had engine failure in that situation I'd like to think that (after having a good old panic) I would work out a CTS for a safe destination and some predicted EPs in order to quantify just how much trouble I was likely to be in, before getting on with the engine troubleshooting and the calls to the coastguard, because if all else fails it gives you a plan to get home and if things start going off that plan you know when and why to escalate. But I'll freely admit that's hindsight and the OP did what was right for him, boat and crew to get home without issue. That's a win in my book.

The boat was a 36' Vancouver - so a seaworthy but heavy boat. Up to that point we had been making good progress, varying between 5 and 6 knots. The reason for turning the engine on was that, with the wind shift, our speed had dropped right down to 3 knots and our leeway considerably increased. I had intended to use the engine to gain some speed to maximise our tidal gate window at the Needles and offset the leeway to ensure a good angle of approach. I'd have to check my notes for the exact timings, distances and estimates.

 

[jamieo]

Re the initial engine problem, does your engine have a decomposition leaver?
If so, turning the engine over decompressed might have been an alternative to using the spanner.
Re the PP - good call.

I don't even know what a decomposition lever is - I'll find out!!!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

"Decompression" lever. Means the engine isn't trying to compress the air/fuel mixture and is much easier to turn over by hand or starter motor.

 

[Sandyman]

I don't even know what a decomposition lever is - I'll find out!!!

It wouldn't work on your donk unless it was dead already

 

[jonjo]

Yes - I was in the middle of the west bound traffic at the time. I had an AIS receiver, but not transmitter, and was actively tracking ships both visually and via AIS. At the time I was not overly concerned at manoeuvring the large ship traffic under just sail. Without the engine we had perhaps less options, but were adequately anticipating shipping. The impact avoiding shipping was more on our timing and approach to the Needles. This was added risk but being managed as part of the overall situation.

I was in the same location 30 hours later with similar fickle winds. I used the engine twice to pull safely ahead of ships in the interest of not loosing time, as you indicate 3kts + AIS info should be enough to dodge ships without much anxiety.

My main rationale for the Pan Pan was that, having failed to resolve the situation, with the (3) books onboard indicating it could be a seized engine/gearbox which was not going to be able to be restarted, we would very likely get into a position where we did need assistance in the coming hours and there were risks the situation could worsen.

Did you consider anchoring at Studland for the night as that course would have given you a better angle across the light winds.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

It wouldn't work on your donk unless it was dead already

"donk"

Excellent. I thought I was possibly the only person who called it that...!

 

[Sandyman]

"donk"

Excellent. I thought I was possibly the only person who called it that...!

That's two of us then

 

[Giblets]

That's two of us then

And another.

 

[jonjo]

We don't know the size or type of yacht in which the OP was sailing, but a late arrival at the Needles on Friday (ie anytime after 2000 hrs) would have seen a twenty plus knot wind against neap tide situation. Probably OK because it was only neaps, but I bet there were some hefty standing waves at the shingles then. Definitely more risky than just an inconvenience.

The OP was concerned about light winds and presumably without the omnipotent presence of our free at the point of delivery RNLI and an ever obliging Solent Coastguard he would have diverted to another destination.

I single handled through the Needle passage Saturday night and at 1:30 am 5 miles short of the Needles fairway buoy my overcanvassed bucking bronko steed required a reef before I passed Bridge Buoy. Midway through taking in the reef my auto pilot gave up showing "drive disconnect". Hmm I thought, I wonder if the high amps of the foredeck decklight have pulled the tired battery voltage below what the autopilot drive considered acceptable. 1300 rpm of engine revs in neutral sorted out the autopilot, I finished the reef and proceeded to scoot up into the Solent. At no point did I reach for the VHF and say "pan pan its getting a little demanding here, so thought you should know Solent Coastguard".

One other point; there quite a few yachts in the Western Solent and I expect there were some out in the Channel along with the OP. By issuing a Pan Pan any of these could have picked up his message and there could well have been one with enough engineering expertise to offer advice or even assistance to the OP.

A non pan pan conversation on the VHF could have the same effect.

No downside in asking for help, so why not issue the Pan Pan?

Because marine tradition means other vessels are obliged to consider how they can intervene and assist the vessel that claims it is in distress. I assume the pan-pan conversation by the OP was in fact an informational/advisory type of dialogue with Solent Coastguard about a spot of bother that would become an inconvenience if the OP decided to divert away from a passage plan past the Needles.

 

[jamieo]

I was in the same location 30 hours later with similar fickle winds. I used the engine twice to pull safely ahead of ships in the interest of not loosing time, as you indicate 3kts + AIS info should be enough to dodge ships without much anxiety.


Did you consider anchoring at Studland for the night as that course would have given you a better angle across the light winds.

Yes, my original plan was heading to Lymington. I still intended to head in that direction, would have tried to moor on a ball outside Yarmouth under sail or anchor somewhere. My back up plan was to head to Studland and anchor there. I had worked out I had time to continue with my plan to get to the Solent before abandoning it.

Donk - yes we call it the donkey too

 

[jamieo]

The OP was concerned about light winds and presumably without the omnipotent presence of our free at the point of delivery RNLI and an ever obliging Solent Coastguard he would have diverted to another destination.

I single handled through the Needle passage Saturday night and at 1:30 am 5 miles short of the Needles fairway buoy my overcanvassed bucking bronko steed required a reef before I passed Bridge Buoy. Midway through taking in the reef my auto pilot gave up showing "drive disconnect". Hmm I thought, I wonder if the high amps of the foredeck decklight have pulled the tired battery voltage below what the autopilot drive considered acceptable. 1300 rpm of engine revs in neutral sorted out the autopilot, I finished the reef and proceeded to scoot up into the Solent. At no point did I reach for the VHF and say "pan pan its getting a little demanding here, so thought you should know Solent Coastguard".


A non pan pan conversation on the VHF could have the same effect.


Because marine tradition means other vessels are obliged to consider how they can intervene and assist the vessel that claims it is in distress. I assume the pan-pan conversation by the OP was in fact an informational/advisory type of dialogue with Solent Coastguard about a spot of bother that would become an inconvenience if the OP decided to divert away from a passage plan past the Needles.

Each experience like this, both practically dealing with such situations and discussing them with more experienced people, gets me closer to your level of expertise and competency. Getting there