jamieo
Member
Interesting. I don't know the model without looking up, it's a Yanmar engine.
When you say blip with the starter, what do you mean?
First Pan Pan experience
- Thread starter jamieo
- Start date
Interesting. I don't know the model without looking up, it's a Yanmar engine.
When you say blip with the starter, what do you mean?
Robin
Well-Known Member
Our current Yanmar on a 3GM30 doesn't d o it but what I mean is a quick press of the starter usually allows the gear lever to be moved into neutral where it was previously stuck in forward gear, put there to stop the shaft spinning under sail and we had a Brunton self pitching/ feathering prop..
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
There is a Yanmar engineering notice for one type of gearbox. They specifically state that the gear lever should not be engaged when the engine is not running because it causes the cone drive in the gearbox to fail to disengage and in the long term, gear slip.
Have been through all this and fitted a new and somewhat expensive gearbox.
Read the instructions! :encouragement:
Have been through all this and fitted a new and somewhat expensive gearbox.
Read the instructions! :encouragement:
Robin
Well-Known Member
I was aware of it but anyway our boat is for sale, not going to be a problem for me anymore
Uricanejack
Well-Known Member
Hmmm
25 miles out nice day f 3 sw sailing vessel
Engine won't start. Anoying
Why did you feel it was an urgency
Or Likly to become a danger
Not being much of an engineer or a mechanic my engine gives me grief I just sail to where I'm going
25 miles out nice day f 3 sw sailing vessel
Engine won't start. Anoying
Why did you feel it was an urgency
Or Likly to become a danger
Not being much of an engineer or a mechanic my engine gives me grief I just sail to where I'm going
steve yates
Well-Known Member
Is this true? I would have thought a pan pan is an appeal to all stations or vessels in the vicinity? So other yachts or craft may divert to stand by in case further help is required? Whereas a call to the coastguard to inform them of the situation, and then keeping in touch and updating them, possibly on a different channel if the CB suggest it to keep 16 clear, would not involve other craft except possibly a lifeboat if Cg deemed it a good idea. Or do I have this wrong?
Bob Stay
N/A
Bully for you Jack. Are you familiar with the Needles channel? Are you a relatively inexperienced skipper with a seasick crew? It's just the sort of situation which is easy to deride from a cosy armchair but very stressful in reality.
PS we were delivering a disreputable, 50 ton ferro gaff ketch once, and lost the gearbox off the Owers. NO wind at all. CG informed, they sent the Selsey lifeboat to tow her into Itchen Ferry on a gorgeous Sunday afternoon, and the righteous indignation from the Pimms sippers tut-tutting on their varnished classics was a joy to behold
Robin
Well-Known Member
Pan Pan gets the attention better on ch16 and may silence the numbnuts for a while too to clear the air of garbage calls. Pan Pan does not require other craft to divert to provide help,unlike for a Mayday. Certainly a call to the CG would have worked and indeed would have been my preferred approach but the OP was not local to the area, was apprehensive about the approach to and via the Needles Channel into the western Solent and timing it to get the tides right. It was a judgement call and in the circumstances I would not criticise it as it did not inconvenience anyone else at large, unless delaying a radio check for Numbnuts Nora of Hamble counts as such.
Robin
Well-Known Member
Not being local Uricanejack you may not appreciate that whilst 25 miles out it was no problem, but later in the approach and entry into the Needles Channel with sharp bits one side and a shingle bank the other and a current running at up to 5 kts and in places setting across the shingle bank as well as kicking up overfalls in the channel proper, things can be very different.
Robin
Well-Known Member
I'm aware of it but it is not in the owner's engine manual only in online tech pages which I downloaded for my own records after seeing it discussed on various fora. I have no idea if the original owner of ours for 15 years did the right thing or not, c'est la:nonchalance: vie.
Uricanejack
Well-Known Member
No I am not a local I have visited the Solent via the needles precisely once over 30 years ago.
Before I say Anything else if you call mayday or pan pan I will respond no questions asked .
If you are afraid and say pan pan or mayday I will respond without judgment
I have done so several times
No heroics involved just the a call received and respond
I would never refuse for any reason short of endangering my own vessel and crew
Pan pan. Is a big deal
You have a perfectly safe sailing vessel sailing in safe circumstances why would this be a pan pan
Call me a jerk if you like but given the reported conditions. I see inconvenience not danger
Even so I repeat make the call I will come no questions
After maybe
Before I say Anything else if you call mayday or pan pan I will respond no questions asked .
If you are afraid and say pan pan or mayday I will respond without judgment
I have done so several times
No heroics involved just the a call received and respond
I would never refuse for any reason short of endangering my own vessel and crew
Pan pan. Is a big deal
You have a perfectly safe sailing vessel sailing in safe circumstances why would this be a pan pan
Call me a jerk if you like but given the reported conditions. I see inconvenience not danger
Even so I repeat make the call I will come no questions
After maybe
SimonFa
Well-Known Member
Again this is not criticising OP as skipper he has to make the call but he did have Studland as a bail out rather than risk the Needles Channel.
He got the engine going so we'll never what would have happened, but round here sailing vessels with failed engines usually call CG who then put out a request for a tow in to Portland or Weymouth. I've never heard of one being called as a PP even when it was a lobster pot issue close to Portland Race.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
I think Uricanejack is right in his comment that Pan Pan is a big deal, although I am not suggesting that if the OP felt it needed it then he was not wrong in doing so
What annoys me is the French who insist on using Pan Pan to announce a weather report. Although I have to admit this is easier to ignore than the DSC alarm which they seem wedded to
What annoys me is the French who insist on using Pan Pan to announce a weather report. Although I have to admit this is easier to ignore than the DSC alarm which they seem wedded to
dunedin
Well-Known Member
I am not a local, but isn't there a very wide second entrance to the Solent if the Needles is too - well, needle like narrow. Surely diverting to the eastern entrance would be perfectly safe - if a little more inconvenient.
jamieo
Member
I appreciate the comments and certainly recognise (with hindsight) this could have been dealt with via a call to the CG rather than a PP. Having now experienced this, and discussed on this forum, I would do that next time and later escalate to a PP is the situation became worse. Part of my reason to raise this was to highlight to those who haven't experienced such issues that there are ways to deal with them, at the time you may well feel very stressed (I did) but stay calm, work through your issue, and there is help - as per much advice here, a CG call is available.
I don't feel the PP was totally out of proportion in the circumstances, and certainly not when relative to most you here in the Solent (never mind the endless radio checks). Within the Solent I wouldn't have made the call, there are many places to easily anchor up safely and get to no matter the tide.
Studland (not Swanage, my typo) was my back up plan. The tide wasn't favourable but that would have only meant more time at sea and not a huge problem. Getting into the Solent was my preferred choice as long as it was safe. The eastern Solent would not have been a great option as we would have faced a lengthy foul tide and a very much longer sail through the night.
I don't feel the PP was totally out of proportion in the circumstances, and certainly not when relative to most you here in the Solent (never mind the endless radio checks). Within the Solent I wouldn't have made the call, there are many places to easily anchor up safely and get to no matter the tide.
Studland (not Swanage, my typo) was my back up plan. The tide wasn't favourable but that would have only meant more time at sea and not a huge problem. Getting into the Solent was my preferred choice as long as it was safe. The eastern Solent would not have been a great option as we would have faced a lengthy foul tide and a very much longer sail through the night.
In their rush to reassure the OP that he did well this thread has teased out peculiar definitions of suitable Pan Pan usage from some posters. Do some people feel that there are just 3 available categories for all dialogue with Solent Coastguard, namely Radio Check, Pan-Pan and Mayday?
The call making decision logic is simple. If a vessel is in distress and requires outside assistance then:
If the situation is immediately life threatening = Mayday, if not then it is a Pan-Pan.
The OP was not calling for outside assistance when he contacted Solent Coastguard, he was sailing under control and still 4 hours away from a location where a tow would be useful or 3 hours away from an anchorage with a very simple approach without engine.
With hindsight the OP made a minor error issuing a Pan-Pan but he more than made up for that by demonstrating a high level of self sufficiency by resolving the stuck gearbox problem while underway. It should be possible to compliment the OP without propagating erroneous advice on VHF distress usage.
The call making decision logic is simple. If a vessel is in distress and requires outside assistance then:
If the situation is immediately life threatening = Mayday, if not then it is a Pan-Pan.
The OP was not calling for outside assistance when he contacted Solent Coastguard, he was sailing under control and still 4 hours away from a location where a tow would be useful or 3 hours away from an anchorage with a very simple approach without engine.
With hindsight the OP made a minor error issuing a Pan-Pan but he more than made up for that by demonstrating a high level of self sufficiency by resolving the stuck gearbox problem while underway. It should be possible to compliment the OP without propagating erroneous advice on VHF distress usage.
Giblets
Well-Known Member
If the OP was 25(ish) miles due south of The Needles he would have been either very close to or actually in the west flowing traffic lane so perhaps a Pan-Pan was a good idea thereby alerting big ships of his predicament (assuming the buggers were listening!!!).
I'm surprised no-one has picked this up and suggested he should have hoisted the "restricted in ability to manoeuvre" day shape!
I'm surprised no-one has picked this up and suggested he should have hoisted the "restricted in ability to manoeuvre" day shape!
stranded
Well-Known Member
Fair point. Not technically correct, but understandable and certainly not something to beat oneself up about. And certainly far less irritating than the radio checks. Just don't get that - the great majority, in the Solent at least, are presumably by people who are unlikely to be out of sight of other boats, or out of mobile range. Do they cancel their sailing if the vhf doesn't work? I blame it on the med flotilla companies who encourage it, but that is because they want to know they can keep in touch with their brood. That said, I am still grateful that the heartfelt heads briefings by engineers who had too often to deal with the consequences of improper use seems to have stuck with my crew!
DJE
Well-Known Member
If the OP was 25(ish) miles due south of The Needles he would have been either very close to or actually in the west flowing traffic lane so perhaps a Pan-Pan was a good idea thereby alerting big ships of his predicament (assuming the buggers were listening!!!).
I'm surprised no-one has picked this up and suggested he should have hoisted the "restricted in ability to manoeuvre" day shape!
Many years ago I was becalmed with engine failure in the west-going shipping lane about 25 miles south of Bembridge Ledge with two small children on board. So I sympathise with the OP. Unlike him I was unable to fix my engine!
I called Solent Coastgaurd on Ch.67 and advised them that I was in need of assistance. They moved me to Ch.16, asked for vessels able to assist, and eventually tasked Bembridge Lifeboat to tow us to safety. In the meantime the CG advised me to issue Securite broadcasts to advise shipping of our presence.
dslittle
Well-Known Member
Big sign written in RED (from factory) behind the throttle lever. If anyone else is helming they get told even if they don't read it. Hopefully will never be an issue!!!
In relation to the OP, well done for a very descriptive post with good rationale. I for one have absolutely no issue with you calling in a PAN PAN. I also congratulate you on managing the situation. Having also sailed outside of the Solent, I understand your apprehension at going through the Narrows without optimum conditions (i.e. slightly later than planned) and your far sighted anticipation of a POTENTIAL problem. As others have said, leaving it until you are being pushed onto the Shingles would have necessitated a real MAYDAY and much more grief for all concerned. Well done.
