Robin
Well-Known Member
Mine and my Hammar auto LJ is in my living toom currently, in case we get flooded, hurricane season is well under way rightnow
. Not Paranoia but the boat is for sale and not getting another:disgust:.
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First Pan Pan experience
- Thread starter jamieo
- Start date
. Not Paranoia but the boat is for sale and not getting another:disgust:.Can you provide a link to your text quote as I have done repeatedly in this thread. I ask because none of the SOLAS docs I have read use your prose and it also fails a basic English comprehension test.
There is no such thing as a "state of urgency" in any docs I can find. These docs refer to onboard "emergencies" that give rise to a degree of "distress" which in some cases will warrant the broadcast of a "distress alert" prefixed by the urgency "pro-word" Pan-Pan.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-pan
This is simply one of many if you google pan pan radio call. Also, you can edit to clarify the standard of english comprehension if you really do think its poor.
Alternatively, try a VHF operators course, widely available. This can now be completed on line followed by a couple of hours exam by a qualified assessor.
The VHF Handbook by Tim Bartlett is also excellent at helping you to understand Distress, Urgency and Safety messages.
Hope this helps.
This is simply one of many if you google pan pan radio call. Also, you can edit to clarify the standard of english comprehension if you really do think its poor.
Alternatively, try a VHF operators course, widely available. This can now be completed on line followed by a couple of hours exam by a qualified assessor.
The VHF Handbook by Tim Bartlett is also excellent at helping you to understand Distress, Urgency and Safety messages.
Hope this helps.
ShinyShoe
Well-Known Member
Clearly I didn't make myself clear enough for jonjo - nothing in SOLAS say ANY pro word is needed. SOLAS says "receiving a signal from any source that persons are in distress at sea" - you'd be hard pressed not to realise someone is in distress if they are shouting "please can someone help me I am sinking"... that was my point. So a pan pan may indicate a person is in distress at sea or it may not.
And YES you will need to analyse every distress call - you need to determine if you are able to offer assistance or will just be an annoyance. (Correction - most people would need to analyse the call - I'm 99% sure you will be an annoyance no matter what so feel free if you ever here ShinyShoe calling Pan or Mayday to carry on past)
You can think all you like - I've told you before I'm not and so I assume since I've stated a FACT that you choose to ignore, pretty much everything else you ever spout on here is utter tosh too. Can someone remind me where the mute button is?
Bru
Well-Known Member
I say chaps, can't we keep this civil?
It's been an interesting thread so far and a useful if as yet not conclusive discussion. Be nice if it didn't descend into chaos just yet!
It's been an interesting thread so far and a useful if as yet not conclusive discussion. Be nice if it didn't descend into chaos just yet!
AuntyRinum
Well-Known Member
I rarely venture into this forum because, after all these years, I rarely find anything new. Everything that can be discussed has been discussed here over the years, in the same way that yachting magazines recycle the same subjects every few years. It's like the Disney formula where they release the same film for a new generation every seven years and sell it all over again.
It's no surprise then to see distress calls being discussed again, but what is unusual is the convoluted twists and turns that this thread has taken. How can anyone waffle for so long about such a simple thing? What a load of tosh.
The fact is that a Pan Pan indicates a state of urgency. That's how it's been for as long as I can remember. That's it, it's that simple. No threat to life, and no immediate danger, but urgency.
If your engine's packed up, there's no wind and you're a sailing boat, that's not urgent so no Pan Pan.
If your engine's packed up, there's no wind and you're a sailing boat that might drift onto rocks in two hours time, that's not urgent so no Pan Pan.
Having said all that, the Coastguard will respond whatever you say. They know you're an amateur and will make allowance for your lack of knowledge.
It's no surprise then to see distress calls being discussed again, but what is unusual is the convoluted twists and turns that this thread has taken. How can anyone waffle for so long about such a simple thing? What a load of tosh.
The fact is that a Pan Pan indicates a state of urgency. That's how it's been for as long as I can remember. That's it, it's that simple. No threat to life, and no immediate danger, but urgency.
If your engine's packed up, there's no wind and you're a sailing boat, that's not urgent so no Pan Pan.
If your engine's packed up, there's no wind and you're a sailing boat that might drift onto rocks in two hours time, that's not urgent so no Pan Pan.
Having said all that, the Coastguard will respond whatever you say. They know you're an amateur and will make allowance for your lack of knowledge.
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
A nice contrast to my first Pan-Pan, when I got a Polybag round the screw as a tramontana started off Port Vendres. As I had a broken mast this was slightly concerning.
It took Corsen CROSS about 23' to get back to me - by which time I'd found the 3.5 Tohatsu on the boarding ladder gave steerage way and the boat's propensity to hull sail allowed me to make sufficient progress to finally get into Argeles after 5 hours.
As already pointed out Mayday for immediate life or vessel threatening situations and PanPan for urgent situations which might deteriorate.
In the OP's case I'd have kept stumm - lots of other ploys upon which to fall back in his situation.
However the man on the spot has to make the decision.
Here in Greece people are not so free with cries for help. If one does make one, the boat has, subsequently, to be passed off as seaworthy by a Greek-registered surveyor after its arrival in port, whether it was helped in or not. That is effectively a £500 on-the-spot fine. Many have found this a sobering experience.
It took Corsen CROSS about 23' to get back to me - by which time I'd found the 3.5 Tohatsu on the boarding ladder gave steerage way and the boat's propensity to hull sail allowed me to make sufficient progress to finally get into Argeles after 5 hours.
As already pointed out Mayday for immediate life or vessel threatening situations and PanPan for urgent situations which might deteriorate.
In the OP's case I'd have kept stumm - lots of other ploys upon which to fall back in his situation.
However the man on the spot has to make the decision.
Here in Greece people are not so free with cries for help. If one does make one, the boat has, subsequently, to be passed off as seaworthy by a Greek-registered surveyor after its arrival in port, whether it was helped in or not. That is effectively a £500 on-the-spot fine. Many have found this a sobering experience.
You have still not stated whether Pan-Pan is officially defined as a type of "distress alert" to use the IAMSAR terminology. I can only infer you think not because you believe Pan-Pan can be used for non distress situations.
Based on your watered down pro-word definition it is necessary to listen to all VHF transmissions in order to first establish where a state if distress is being described. I believe you are misinterpreting the SOLAS definition of "signal" which is intended to cover non spoken visual forms of distress or indeed things like a sink vessel launching a liferaft or smoke billowing out of cabin.
Fantasie 19
Well-Known Member
AuntyRinum
Well-Known Member
You haven't grasped the concept of urgency, have you?Really??? I bet you wear your underpants over your trousers as well...
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
You haven't grasped the concept of urgency, have you?
The Union Star was two hours off rocks. Obviously that job wasn't urgent.
In the two hours in your example, you have to add in time to formulate a SAR plan, get assets tasked and underway, transit time to scene, time on scene to assess and, for example, get a tow on board, and get underway.
Two hours disappears pretty rapidly.
AuntyRinum
Well-Known Member
In that case you would have called a Mayday. I wouldn't.
Two hours away from rocks on the Isle of Wight is neither urgent or imminent, especially in a sailing boat.
Call the Coastguard by all means, but it doesn't warrant a distress call.
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Robin
Well-Known Member
Oh FFS, armchair keyboard warriors know it all yes? No HARM DONE!!! Did it stop you making yet another a radio check maybe?
AuntyRinum
Well-Known Member
Your reply reminds me why I don't come here much any more.
Not a keyboard warrior; been there and done it. I've sailed all over the world, called Pan Pans and Mayday Relays, and my radio work goes back to the days when, to make a phone call, you made a link call through a Coast Radio Station and were chuffed when you got it right and the operator called you "Old man".
If you know better, go for it.
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Uricanejack
Well-Known Member
I must be getting old.
I remember using 2182 and VHF referring to the operator as "Old man"
DSC not quite the same
I remember using 2182 and VHF referring to the operator as "Old man"
DSC not quite the same
Robin
Well-Known Member
THERE is NO need to denigrate someone like the OP for making a considered decision to preface his call by Pan Pan + I too have had radios, VHF and SSB, for many years and made many a link call through coast radio stations, in the UK and abroad.
The other place is ideal for you, how about making a permanent move like you promised?
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AuntyRinum
Well-Known Member
Get a grip for goodness sake and stop being so rude.
I'm continuing the conversation in post #124; nothing to do with the OP. What's wrong with you?
Robin
Well-Known Member
By inference you were, Nothing wrong with me that putting you on ignore won't cure, but then I'm not on the Scottish sauce like you.
AuntyRinum
Well-Known Member
You need help matey.
steve yates
Well-Known Member
I wandered off from this thread cos it had turned into a pissing contest.
Just came back to see if it had got any better and had any useful info.
Sadly not. But I have to say, as a newcomer, there is obviously a lot of history with many forumites, and maybe sometimes you need to sit back a bit and think why am I typing this?if your old enemies turn up.
I don't know Chanel yacht, robin or aunts whoever from Adam. But as a total noob and outsider, looking simply at what is written, I am not surprised that aunty......... ( these odd names really don't work very well) doesn't come here very often.
They wrote a couple of posts, which were an opinion, a perfectly valid and sensible one, and got jumped on. Partly for dissing the op, which is frankly bollocks, and partly it seems for just posting?
I was just going to abandon the thread again, but maybe a newbies perspective might be valid.
A spirited discussion is one thing, but Personal arguments and point scoring leave most folk not involved cold, and they don't even care who is right and who is wrong. Both sides are boring.
Just came back to see if it had got any better and had any useful info.
Sadly not. But I have to say, as a newcomer, there is obviously a lot of history with many forumites, and maybe sometimes you need to sit back a bit and think why am I typing this?if your old enemies turn up.
I don't know Chanel yacht, robin or aunts whoever from Adam. But as a total noob and outsider, looking simply at what is written, I am not surprised that aunty......... ( these odd names really don't work very well) doesn't come here very often.
They wrote a couple of posts, which were an opinion, a perfectly valid and sensible one, and got jumped on. Partly for dissing the op, which is frankly bollocks, and partly it seems for just posting?
I was just going to abandon the thread again, but maybe a newbies perspective might be valid.
A spirited discussion is one thing, but Personal arguments and point scoring leave most folk not involved cold, and they don't even care who is right and who is wrong. Both sides are boring.
