First Boat need advice pls - Range 45-50fly

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Dragut

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Hi all,

for years I'm looking for the right boat to buy and each time I'm deciding to wait for the next year. What happened a few times is that I join the fairs in January and February and mostly they can not make it to deliver a custom-build boat before June so I postpone it. To avoid that, and to get more discount I will start early this year and hope to order before December so I'll have my boat by April 18. It will be my first boat which I will use to spend my time on it, cruising trough the med for at least a fully month a year continuously.

First I checked for the Bavaria, nice boats, enough for me but a little bit small when talking about the flybridge models (R40 or Virtess420). I was thinking about the S45Coupe but the model is a little bit outdated as it was launched in 2012. And somehow I definitely want a flybridge to get that extra view and pleasure.

One of my requirements is a tender garage and a strong swimming platform (+400KG) which eventually could be used for jetski transport when I am cruising around my mainport in times I want to have an extra recreation. As far as I've seen I should have at least a 46ft boat for this purposes. There are many options and it's not easy to decide which one will fulfill the needs, the requirements, the long term purposes and so on.

Right now I listed the next boats to view carefully:

-Galeon 460/500fly
-Absolute 45-50fly
-Prestige 460-500fly
-Ferretti 450fly

All of these boats have an introduction/launch date after 2015 so they are relatively new models. Of course quality price balance is very important but I don't need a high-end or a luxury+ boat, average+ or ++ or luxury - is also fine for me as long as the materials are long lasting and sustainable. It is not like cars that you get an impression of each brand immediately. I would prefer a VW, AUDI, VOLVO boat but it's a totally different world with unlimited variations of boats and materials.

I'll use the boat mainly by cruising speed so will not go for the biggest twin-blocks or something. Just the standards or one bigger is fine. Also I want to place (later on) a gyro on it to avoid rolling as much as possible. The gen. and the aircon could be also bought later from exactly the same suppliers and installed and you save 1/2 the price! On the galeon 460 there is no gyro option but on the 500 it has, but the weight of the 460 is 16000kg and the 500 24000kg. As long as it fulfills my needs there is no need to go that big for me loudly thinking, but I'm not sure about the gyro and the tender garage on the 460. Also the 500 has a watermaker option which the 460 not has, but also that opt could be installed later on as far as I've seen.

I'm thinking about a shaft drive Volvo twin blocks with a bowhruster joystick, I checked some youtube videos and I think it is fine to handle. Of course an IPS makes it better (I think) but this works fine well I think.

The Galeon has a nice beach mode, you can extend the besides and there are some nice barstools but I think it's nice in the catalogue but more a trick (not negative ment) to sell more boats and also cleverly developped, but in reality maybe not needed that much. This extra costs 50k and the same when buying a car, you buy some extras you never use, I think this opt could be unnecessary. Of course it depends on the person and the situation but going with the family cruising and anchoring on a nice bay 2+2 persons or a day with friends 6persons the boat has enough other "facilities" left. The most important + on the Galeon is the forefront table with seatings which the other boats don't have. The forefront can also be changed to a big sunpad.

I think Ferretti has the best interior and also a very nice boat but I'm not that much into a very luxury finishing and pay (much more) extra for it as $ is important of course.

Also there is the thing that it is my first boat to step in with a 45ft and go for a 50-55ft ten years later will be maybe better then to start with a 50ft.

Any suggestions, advices or information is really welcome and appreciated. Thanks!
 
Welcome to the madhouse.

Since you ask for ANY suggestion, here's mine.
For anyone thinking to buy a first boat, buying a NEW one as large as the ones you are looking at is pure madness, for two reasons:
1) there's still plenty of very good used boats of the same type on the market, which can be bought at a fraction of the new cost - and believe it or not, most of them were built better than the new ones (even of the same builder).
2) there's simply no way that you will find your perfect boat on your first attempt, no matter how carefully you think about her.
I know you can argue that there's no logical reason why you shouldn't, but trust me, this is an axiom in boating.
No boater on this planet has ever been able to nail it on his/her first attempt - and if you come across someone who tell you the opposite, he/she is a lier! :rolleyes:

Then again, if you consider outdated a boat 'cause she was launched in 2012, I guess what I'm saying is not what you would like to hear (particularly #1).
I happen to think that some of the most beautiful pleasure boats ever designed came to the market almost 30 years ago, but that's me.
Each to their own on that of course, but if you will buy a new boat, I bet that after a couple of years at the latest you will remember at least my #2 above! :cool:

Regardless, all the very best for your search! :encouragement:
 
MapisM said:
Welcome to the madhouse.

Since you ask for ANY suggestion, here's mine.
For anyone thinking to buy a first boat, buying a NEW one as large as the ones you are looking at is pure madness, for two reasons:
1) there's still plenty of very good used boats of the same type on the market, which can be bought at a fraction of the new cost - and believe it or not, most of them were built better than the new ones (even of the same builder).
2) there's simply no way that you will find your perfect boat on your first attempt, no matter how carefully you think about her.
I know you can argue that there's no logical reason why you shouldn't, but trust me, this is an axiom in boating.
No boater on this planet has ever been able to nail it on his/her first attempt - and if you come across someone who tell you the opposite, he/she is a lier! :rolleyes:

Then again, if you consider outdated a boat 'cause she was launched in 2012, I guess what I'm saying is not what you would like to hear (particularly #1).
I happen to think that some of the most beautiful pleasure boats ever designed came to the market almost 30 years ago, but that's me.
Each to their own on that of course, but if you will buy a new boat, I bet that after a couple of years at the latest you will remember at least my #2 above! :cool:

Regardless, all the very best for your search! :encouragement:
Click to expand...


Hi Mapis ;),

Thank you.

I am sure you're right as I am thinking the same sometimes. Just to buy a 2014+ boat for lower price and try with that one a little bit. I read once that buying a secondhand boat is a serious thing and that there might be some hidden damages or technical errors so that got me a little bit anxious about it. I am sure there are some reliable dealers/brokers or available inspection rapports but I dont know them (yet).

Step in a 40ft try to make the best of it and then later go big size is also opt but not my favorite.

I read about the fairs to get a good deal on the fair models even up to 30% but I dont know if thats realistic with this one. I am relying on a discount of 15-20% but if I will make it to find a second hand 3-4years old with 40-50% off which I could trust thats definitely a great thing to happen. Maybe like everything else is the momentum, right place right time and a little bit luck...
 
The vast majority of boaters do not buy new boats, but used ones. There is little risk buying an older boat built by a reputable builder if it has a detailed service record and and you have a rigorous survey including the engines. Don't expect it to be perfect and be prepared to spend a bit to deal with minor shortcomings.

Having a new boat built is a major project. Boats of this size are very complicated and there are a lot of decisions to be made which is even more difficult if you have little experience of owning and running a boat.

With today's slow market in boats there is lots of choice on the market and buying something close to what you think you want and using it for 2-3 years will help you make a much better choice if you do then want to buy a new one.

Don't be seduced by the talk of big discounts. Almost every new boat buyer ends up spending more than they planned. List prices are largely irrelevant as the market is very competitive. Builders mainly build to order and the chances of getting a stock boat that suits you at a huge discount are very small.
 
Also agree it is very difficult to get your ideal boat first a time out.

Received my first boat April 2016 (36 ft fly). Now have my second boat in April 2017 (50 ft fly). Loads of things I wanted second time round that I had not considered first time. List included:

Gyro - a must for anchor in the med in my opinion
Anchor cam
Reversing cam
Chain counter
Two screens on the flybridge
Virtual anchor/dps
More fridge space
More storage space.
Tender garage - personally I wanted the tender stored out the way.
Mesh netting to shade from sun at the rear
Better stereo
Quieter air con

To be honest I just went through the options and choose them all except water/ice maker :). Some things from the list just come with having a bigger boat.

Give me another year and I might decide I 'need' other must haves. All my options above is what I personally 'wanted'. Others will view some of them as a waste of money. But like cars if everyone liked the same we would all have the same boats or cars.
 
Also I ordered my boat in September for April delivery. If December I doubt you will have any chance for the next year, unless it has been scheduled already.
 
Tranona said:
The vast majority of boaters do not buy new boats, but used ones. There is little risk buying an older boat built by a reputable builder if it has a detailed service record and and you have a rigorous survey including the engines. Don't expect it to be perfect and be prepared to spend a bit to deal with minor shortcomings.

Having a new boat built is a major project. Boats of this size are very complicated and there are a lot of decisions to be made which is even more difficult if you have little experience of owning and running a boat.

With today's slow market in boats there is lots of choice on the market and buying something close to what you think you want and using it for 2-3 years will help you make a much better choice if you do then want to buy a new one.

Don't be seduced by the talk of big discounts. Almost every new boat buyer ends up spending more than they planned. List prices are largely irrelevant as the market is very competitive. Builders mainly build to order and the chances of getting a stock boat that suits you at a huge discount are very small.
Click to expand...

I will definitely consider that option also, check for 2012+ boats if I will not have succes on one of the coming fairs. As far as I've seen the only thing is that for the Ferretti, Galeon, Prestige and Absolute boats the 45ft Fly's are all launched after 2014 or 2016 so maybe I will look for any other similar model too. If I look for an Absolute 45fly or Galeon there are only 2017 models available right now ;)

Due to the maintenance, overall costs and so many other details I already decided to start a little bit "small" with a 45ft as a maximum. Will be great spending time on it and more then enough for me so pushing to the limit seems not right.

I will sure keep the option in mind to buy a secondhand ready to deliver "lastminute deal" in March/April 2018 if I will fail to buy until that time. Then I will be also well known about all alternatives and details.
 
TonyR123 said:
Also agree it is very difficult to get your ideal boat first a time out.

Received my first boat April 2016 (36 ft fly). Now have my second boat in April 2017 (50 ft fly). Loads of things I wanted second time round that I had not considered first time. List included:

Gyro - a must for anchor in the med in my opinion
Anchor cam
Reversing cam
Chain counter
Two screens on the flybridge
Virtual anchor/dps
More fridge space
More storage space.
Tender garage - personally I wanted the tender stored out the way.
Mesh netting to shade from sun at the rear
Better stereo
Quieter air con

To be honest I just went through the options and choose them all except water/ice maker :). Some things from the list just come with having a bigger boat.

Give me another year and I might decide I 'need' other must haves. All my options above is what I personally 'wanted'. Others will view some of them as a waste of money. But like cars if everyone liked the same we would all have the same boats or cars.
Click to expand...


I think a Gyro is a must have too. I'm ok even if a boat rolls 360degrees I've no problem with it. I like the sea since I was a little kid and when occassionally sailing or traveling on a ferry. But if your wife or any guest on board have difficulties with it and get seasick that would be a disaster. Not all boats under 50ft have it on their optionlist but a seekeaper 5 or 6 should certainly installed.

The anchor cam doesn't say anything to me, all other options I can understand. For the tender garage, only Prestige has one, the other boats has a small one (except the Galeon 460) so the tender should transported on the platform. For me it would be great if there is a garage where the tender could be fully stored, but now I think that might be not so very important/realistic.

All the needs and wishes are mostly "subjective" and personally so it will be a never ending story, a very difficult one.
 
TonyR123 said:
Also I ordered my boat in September for April delivery. If December I doubt you will have any chance for the next year, unless it has been scheduled already.
Click to expand...

I will visit some dealers coming month and try to get more information and see and eventually test the boats. Also I will ask what should be the deadline for the order to get my boat in April/May. I don't know if I could make it to order in September/October as I don't like rushing and I want to be sure that I make the right decision. Also I hope there will be some possibilities in Dusseldorf January 2018 for the last action to finish the "education/study phase" before ordering.

I don't think so but even if I fail in January there is the very last shot to go definitely for a secondhand ready to deliver. But a brand new feels good frankly, all details finished and made according your own wishes.
 
MartynG said:
There are plenty of boat out there up to 10 years old that have hardly been used and will be almost as good as new yet well under the price of a new boat .
What about something like this
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2011/Sealine-F42-3092780/Germany#.WT2-qBgrLrc
.
Click to expand...


Hi Martyn,

I'm already visiting that website since I embraced the thought of a secondhand and checked maybe 100models in two days. There are definitely boats which are worthy to consider, I just need to know better what are the pitfalls and which models/brands should be paid attention.

Let me ask this, for example if I buy this boat can I ask the broker to add some of my wishes or make some adjustments? Like installing an aircon, some electronics, a gyro, the upholstery and mattrasses? Of course for an additional payment, that would be also a good solution maybe.
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
In that list
1. Ferretti 450 Fly
2. Absolute 450 (best for IPS)
3. Galeon 460 or 500
4. Prestige 460 or 500

You can also add a Princess 49 Fly and Fairline 48 Squadron both with IPS and Azimut 50 with shafts.
Click to expand...


The Ferretti is the best in general terms I think. But why pay 100k more (no exactly pricelist available just thought) for it if Absolute is also good. The Galeon is also nice it provides front deck seating. On the aft you can also lounge and even rotate the seat (will that be used so much - I don't know).

The Absolute has a seating on the aft, but you can not get everybody seated there if you are with 6. They provided a sunpad 1/2 and 1/2sofa on that area. The only place to chill and have a relaxation is on the fly if you are with 4+ persons.

The prestige has the Tender garage, great but with davits it's also possible, all platforms are solid and strong enough to bare the weight and there are smart davits sold which could be removed when not used.

Anyway, the ferretti is in my opinion a good choice but just for the eyes the Absolute seems a very good option too. It is a beautiful boat with good aesthetics. I am just not sure if IPS will be the best choice as for the same price you could get a duoblock with higher HP and bowthruster.

Finally, I think what depends for me will be the quality time when anchored but I'm sure I will not stay only around the naval port and go cruising 500-1000miles to explore the world and get some adventure.
 
Dragut said:
Hi Martyn,

I'm already visiting that website since I embraced the thought of a secondhand and checked maybe 100models in two days. There are definitely boats which are worthy to consider, I just need to know better what are the pitfalls and which models/brands should be paid attention.

Let me ask this, for example if I buy this boat can I ask the broker to add some of my wishes or make some adjustments? Like installing an aircon, some electronics, a gyro, the upholstery and mattrasses? Of course for an additional payment, that would be also a good solution maybe.
Click to expand...

Quite common to add extra equipment to a used boat when you buy it. Most decent brokers have contacts who can do the work. However some things (like aircon) can be very difficult and expensive to retrofit compared with factory fit.

When looking at used boats and prices you need to factor in what you need to do with the boat to get it how you want it as well as getting it to the location you want. However, unless you intend keeping it a long time you might want to avoid spending too much as the money you spend will not be reflected in the value or the price if you sell in a year or two.
 
Dragut said:
Hi Martyn,

I'm already visiting that website since I embraced the thought of a secondhand and checked maybe 100models in two days. There are definitely boats which are worthy to consider, I just need to know better what are the pitfalls and which models/brands should be paid attention.

Let me ask this, for example if I buy this boat can I ask the broker to add some of my wishes or make some adjustments? Like installing an aircon, some electronics, a gyro, the upholstery and mattrasses? Of course for an additional payment, that would be also a good solution maybe.
Click to expand...

A gyro stabiliser would be rare as they are very expensive.
If you want air con it would be best to look for a boat with aircon already fitted. It is the same with a bow thruster , for example.
Electronic navigation kit is relatively easy to change (not necessarily cheap).
Upholstery not a problem.
As said .. most brokerages will be able to arrange any updates.
 
Have you been to the show in Cannes ,early Sept ?
A lot of chiose and a lot get sold .
Re retro fit
It's all v easy I have had a few bits done .There is an advantage to buying an allready durable marque 2nd hand and doing a mini refit .
1- it's not fallen to bits
2- you can update to your spec ----exactly

Take for example Air con --- factory fit may be cheaper to instal ( for abvious reasons ) self contained units from a big American supplier in each cabin ,taking up space .But they are niosey. Incredibly niosey --and you will need it on to get a decent nights kip in the med .
So all that stuff about "tender garage , reverse seats "means nothing if you all are permanently grumpy -coz you cannot kip on it properly .

There are some whisper quiet chiller systems where to machinery is notin the living spaces - with quiet air handlers .
Galley appliances can be up specced too easily along with Nav gear .Once you have used it and dicided what you want .

If you have a "sea sicky " crew ? ---- I detect ,then ride or seaworthy ness starts to creep into the equation .
Here you need to drill down deeper in to the deadrise , displacement , engine position .
If it is a factor ---- absolutely test drive before you commit .
I took my wife out of Monaco last year on a pre arranged test drive of a Riva 52 in what we considered /flat ish seas

The look on her face as it slammed at moderate speed -- killed the deal ,the sales team knew it within 5 mins .
Tied up in the Marina or @ a show ,or online --ticked lot of boxes

No matter how big the fridge ,plush the fit n finish ---all blown by poor ride .

It's just you mention 500-1000 mile jaunt,s that alerts me tell you they all ride differently some better than others .

But they all feel nice at boat shows tied up .
Cannes -you can go for rides ,easy to arrange its that type of show .
 
Hi Dragut,

I was lucky enough to visit the Galeon ship yard in Gdansk the other day and have to say I was blown away by their facility and products.

I have always been aware of Galeon but never paid them too much attention until recently and am now a big fan. I was amazed by not only how well designed they are but also the quality of the build.

The boat that really stood out for me was the the 500 fly, a really good looking vessel with some unique features like the fold down side decks and rotating aft cockpit. The amount of light that floods into the boat amazed me and the space they have created below deck is astonishing, loads of head room and great stowage. As with the quality I was expecting it to be on par with the likes of Beneteau but found I was comparing it to the Fairline's, Princess's and Sunseeker's of this world and for the price I think they blow them out of the water.

If you want me to put you in touch with the broker that arranged the trip I am sure he would be more than happy to discuss the range with you.
 
i would second going to Cannes. They have the largest selection of 40ft-60ft boats anywhere. Azimut, Ferretti, Absolute, Prestige, Princess, etc, etc. Loads of boats that are not at Southampton or London. Really does help in selecting what you want. I did Cannes first and then placed the order at Southampton.

To fit a gyro for a 50ft is around £60k - to give an idea of budget.
 
Dragut, I think most of us here wish we had your problem! To your list can I add the Benneteau Swift Trawler 50, a boat which I've got one eye on (because the wife poked me in the other one).
As for the Galeon, I have to say sorry mate but you have to rule that one out. The Galeon ladies were very rude to me at a boat show and I vowed that no one on this forum would buy one!
 
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