First Boat Advice

[nickforest]

Thanks Bruce,

I've tried to be as realistic as possible in terms of budget, undershooting in order to keep a reserve for maintenance and any surprises, cost of moving the boat, mooring etc. I suppose the uptick is that hopefully those costs (beyond moving the boat) will be relatively spread out as opposed to digging what is effectively a deposit for a small house in one go. I certainly don't want to do any of it on finance.

Is self-servicing something that can be learned as I go? or really require a background in the industry? I like the idea, but the complete lack of experience (beyond changing spark plugs etc) will probably be prohibitive.

 

[BruceK]

Engines on the whole at this age are relatively simple affairs and can be done DIY. However learning on them is a different matter, and what will catch you out is not doing something you should have and what would have been a simple maintenance fix is now beyond repair etc. i.e. you've waited for it to break in ignorance. It may be cheaper to have a dedicated trusted marine engineer on the books and keep self maintenance to the basic tasks given in the user manual. The forum is also exceptionally supportive in answering questions, unfortunately answers dont turn spanners. Your call.

 

[CLB]

Thanks Bruce,

I've tried to be as realistic as possible in terms of budget, undershooting in order to keep a reserve for maintenance and any surprises, cost of moving the boat, mooring etc. I suppose the uptick is that hopefully those costs (beyond moving the boat) will be relatively spread out as opposed to digging what is effectively a deposit for a small house in one go. I certainly don't want to do any of it on finance.

Is self-servicing something that can be learned as I go? or really require a background in the industry? I like the idea, but the complete lack of experience (beyond changing spark plugs etc) will probably be prohibitive.

Engine servicing is really little different from a car. The cooling system is slightly different, and uses water instead of air, but other than that, if you can service a car engine, you can service a boat engine. The outdrive is a little different, as there is no car comparison. It's really not that difficult, and there are plenty of magazine articles on the subject, so if you are prepared to learn it can be done.

 

[oldgit]

You talk such snot Oldgit Just because you had a lemon that exceeded even your advanced years and it bit you simply because it was old and tired and well past it's prime and you just couldn't bring yourself to accept that fact doesn't make this a golden rule. Personally I favour a canopy, so much more versatile. And if you insist on paddling a waterlogged log you can well smile at how solidly she sits in the water even if the paddling is hard going. :encouragement:

Unfortunately it was not single lemon but an entire tree of them...first a pair of Mercruisers, followed by a single VP 280 and then a pair of 280T ...
Owning outdrives is like hitting your head against brick wall...lovely when you stop and wonder why you were doing it in the first place.

Outdrives are probably fine when they are new and you are on first name terms with the man in the VP monogramme on his white coat and on his canbus reader ...and he has your credit card number on file.
After that its down hill all the way..........
Old news, from memory a pair of 290 DP beyond salvage on a Sealine 36 £6K, a Sealine 305 that had to go into DB Marine after bottom strike on the Thames £3K. , a Princess 30 DS owner who basically just gave up on boating when his wife finally refused to go out due to outdrive constantly crapping out.Final straw, gearing in top of drive collapsed, we towed him back into Burham 10 mins after he had set out,
Last week a boat towed home from the Thames due to outdrive problems !

As for tent boats fine in the "Med" when at least you are not standing in the rain desperately doing up a reluctant zip, trying to get popper to stay secured shortly after dragging the whole thing over a bird nest of chrome pipes.

 

[BruceK]

And what can we learn from this? You have a nose for gravitating towards lemons. I seem to recall you were on a drying wall quite recently. A couple times in fact.

 

[CLB]

Outdrives are probably fine when they are new and you are on first name terms with the man in the VP monogramme on his white coat and on his canbus reader ...and he has your credit card number on file. After that its down hill all the way..........

That does rather contradict my own experience as posted above.

a pair of 290 DP beyond salvage on a Sealine 36 £6K

Sounds like poor maintenance to me. Two drives going beyond salvage is not normal wear and tear. Possibly left in the water for years without anodes and suffered extensive corrosion? Cant think of any mechanical problem that would take two drives beyond repairable at the same time other than a serious grounding or catastrophic collision with flotsam. If one of the latter, how would a shaft drive boat have fared?

a Sealine 305 that had to go into DB Marine after bottom strike on the Thames £3K.

And again, a bottom strike on a shaft drive boat? Bent shaft? knackered prop? P bracket pushed through hull? Rudder ripped off? Could ultimately sink. In a bottom strike situation, give me an outdrive or outboard boat over shafts every day of the week. Of course, the answer is to not hit bottom in the first place.

a Princess 30 DS owner who basically just gave up on boating when his wife finally refused to go out due to outdrive constantly crapping out. Final straw, gearing in top of drive collapsed, we towed him back into Burham 10 mins after he had set out,

I know this one, Spoke to the guy. Yes he had problems, but I know plenty of people with old shaft drive boats that break down more often than they should and plenty of wives that refuse to go boating for a whole variety of reasons.

Last week a boat towed home from the Thames due to outdrive problems !

Towed a Broom in once cos he had rudder problems. That was with my outdrive boat

I have also mentioned on here, more than once, the owner of a large flybridge that was almost new and had about 90 hours on the clock. He ended up with a £20K plus repair bill for two, yes two, dodgy gearboxes. Last I heard he was going to court over it.

As for tent boats fine in the "Med" when at least you are not standing in the rain desperately doing up a reluctant zip, trying to get popper to stay secured shortly after dragging the whole thing over a bird nest of chrome pipes.

That's a different argument, suffice it to say I have had flybridge boats and I don't care for em much. Always either too hot, too cold or too wet on the fly, and visibility from below is nearly always dire. I have a tent boat, but use it as a wheelhouse, ie rarely take the covers off. Having said that, it's nice, when we have a summer like this one, to have the option. Best of all worlds IMO

 

[BruceK]

You're just handing him back his favourite chew toy CLB. He's a believer, no argument will change his mind

 

[CLB]

To be honest, I am not trying to change his mind. I am trying to offset some of the negativity he spouts regarding outdrives. Newbies need a clear understanding of the issues, not one or two people's bitterness forced on them. I like to think I am reasonably unbiased, in fact in one of the posts above I suggested shafts might be the answer for our OP. There are good and bad in shafts, outdrives and outboards, like there are positives and negative in different boat designs. Old git doesn't like tent boats, so will tell everyone that tent boats are rubbish. Surely even he can accept that a manky old 1980's flybridge is not the right choice for everyone.

 

[BruceK]

Well, I dont know about other people but anybody introducing themselves as Old Git and who then goes on a diatribe while waving a doomsday banner gets my bemused sympathy and a free entry into The Flat Earth Society.
Best response is a polite nodding and eye glazing while contemplating what one would like for tea

 

[Flynnbarr]

Clarke and Carter have a P33 on shafts for 13k needs tlc.
Did have an outdrive mk2 P33 needing tlc but think it’s under offer.

 

[CLB]

Did have an outdrive mk2 P33 needing tlc but think it’s under offer.

Now there's a boat for the brave. That second boat was up for 10K BUT, had been out on the hard for years untouched, is fitted with a pair of old VP drives and, to make things worse, are coupled to a pair of raw water cooled V8s

Not the bargain it may first appear I suspect.

 

[oldgit]

Choice of propulsion, could very much depend on your boating.
For many owners a few summer weekends is absolutely fine and the boat choice including its drive system is reflected in this, should you however wish to extend your boating throughout the year and perhaps do little more than the odd weekend when the weather is kind, something that is capable of doing rather more hours comfortably and reliably might possibly be on the cards.
A quick walk up our club pontoons gives a good indication of who actually goes boating and where, tents and outdrives for days out but for serious boating its flybridge/command bridge and shafts shafts shafts.
A good question would be to ask, how many present shaft drive owners would go back to outdrives and vice versa ?

 

[Flynnbarr]

Now there's a boat for the brave. That second boat was up for 10K BUT, had been out on the hard for years untouched, is fitted with a pair of old VP drives and, to make things worse, are coupled to a pair of raw water cooled V8s

Not the bargain it may first appear I suspect.

Only threw that one in the mix so OG has nightmares during his afternoon nap

 

[CLB]

Choice of propulsion, could very much depend on your boating.
For many owners a few summer weekends is absolutely fine and the boat choice including its drive system is reflected in this, should you however wish to extend your boating throughout the year and perhaps do little more than the odd weekend when the weather is kind, something that is capable of doing rather more hours comfortably and reliably might possibly be on the cards.
A good question would be to ask, how many present shaft drive owners would go back to outdrives and vice versa ?

Well I for one would not go back to shafts, but that's not really the point. Very rarely does anyone choose a boat solely on its propulsion system. You find a boat that you like, that offers what you want, and that is in your budget. This invariably means you end up with a certain kind of drive system. You don't get many 30ft sportscruisers with shafts, like you don't get many 45ft flybridge boats with outdrives.

 

[CLB]

should you however wish to extend your boating throughout the year and perhaps do little more than the odd weekend when the weather is kind, something that is capable of doing rather more hours comfortably and reliably might possibly be on the cards.

I have been boating in company with a shaft drive boat and had to slow down to their speed as they said it was too uncomfortable . It was also a good 4 foot longer than my outdrive powered tent boat.

The thousand miles and 60 hours I have done so far this year have been very comfortable and very reliable. What's the furthest you've been this year?

Here's another outdrive powered tent boat giving good reliable service. Wonder what his fuel bill would have been, had he been on shafts
https://www.mby.com/video/the-great-motorboat-tour-22210

 

[BruceK]

Stop playing with his chew toy, he'll never stop otherwise. It's complete dross and candy for the misinformed.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Maybe should toss IPS into the debate....

 

[BruceK]

oh noooooo. It's become a clown's convention

 

[CLB]

I'd like to think we can all agree on IPS

 

[oldgit]

The thousand miles and 60 hours I have done so far this year have been very comfortable and very reliable. What's the furthest you've been this year?

Hours well down this year due to bit of self inflicted prop bashing and shaft bending earlier in year, managed to log about 150 hours, about the same as most previous years.
Rather curtailed the planned trips to France and Holland, mind you after Murvs weather reports andhis being stuck in Dover while going across , not that unhappy.
Ramsgate was the furthest we managed.
Hopefully its also across to Dunkirk again for the small ships anniversary celebrations, definately worth a go.
Thames clubs usually organise a bunch of boats , worth keeping an eye out if you fancy going.