First Boat Advice

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nickforest

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Hello,

I've been a lurker for a while on these forums in an effort to absorb some of the knowledge available here but think I need some specific advice from the experts. I'm looking to buy my first boat since my teenage years.

My boating experience so far has been limited to many hours on the inland waterways and Caledonian Canal so I'm going to be learning as I go. My intention is to do the VHF course and hopefully RYA Day skipper if time allows (but at least powerboat 2) as chugging around on rivers has given me a sense of trepidation about coastal cruising. My local cruising ground will be Milford Haven and the Bristol Channel.

I'm looking for a boat that can house the family (2 adults, 2 children under 10) overnight in comfort while pottering around the haven with the capability to cruise safely further afield as my knowledge and experience grows. Ultimately, my long term goal is the ability to hop over and explore the cornish coast (if possible).

I've been looking at Hardy Pilots as they appear to be within my budget (around 10-15k) although I'm hugely biased as they were drool-worthy in my childhood, however, I'm concerned about the size as SWMBO has specified comfortable overnighting as one of her "must haves". I need to have the wife on-side as I want our boating to be an inclusive family experience not a 'man escape'.

Must have's are basically: An enclosed cockpit, either by tent or hard top, safety and good sea-keeping (I know a lot of that will be down to me but I'd like the boat to be a seaworthy as possible for peace-of-mind) and comfortable accommodation for at least 2 adults and 2 children overnight, with basic cooking and washing facility. A good range of speed from pottering about to giggle inducing bursts of speed (for the kids... honest!) and decent range.

Nice-to-haves include: a Diesel engine, heating, a shower, shore power and the ability to launch the tender easily (there doesn't seem to be a lot of pontoons around here), a rear platform for easy boarding and the ability to carry another family of four as day passengers.

I'm not interested in having any canvas triangles on board, white-knuckle speed or trailering (my driving license is a little limiting in that regard). I'm not looking for a fashion statement boat and am handy enough to carry out cosmetic work should it be required, however I'm not keen on the look of Colvics and Seawards as they are a bit 'commercial' looks-wise IMHO.

I realise this is a big ask for my budget which is part of the reason I've turned to the forum for help, that said the budget could probably 'stretch' a little for the right boat, however, I want to keep it realistic and allow some buffer for the inevitable suprise costs.

Any advice (or indeed criticism) is welcomed.

EDIT: Changed the extra passengers to a nice-to-have judging by responses so far.
 
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I have grave misgivings that you will find a Hardy Pilot / Orkney Orkadian, regardless of the fact that they are wonderful boats, comfortable for a family of 4 plus 4 day guests. That pushes tolerance too far imo. To pass the Admiral test it will need to have at least 4 berth capability and those are scarce in your price bracket without also absorbing a lot of risk by getting an older boat. Maybe a change in style and a look at an early mid 80's Sunseeker Offshore 31 might net you something in that price range but be aware old boats can also cost a fortune to run. Alternatively look at Fairline SunFury 26 -28 might net you something in that range and something nicer if you can accept petrol which will also reduce cost of ongoing maintenance significantly. As for carrying up to 8. If you plan on doing that comfortably you really need a much bigger boat. Like a 40 footer. Unless you plan on cramming the kids down in the cabin. Things just get too tight otherwise.
 
A Princess 30DS would probably just about fit the bill, you'd need a twin diesel on shafts to be a viable option (running costs and performance wise.)
One sold at the club recently for a shade over your budget, although that was probably a bit of an exceptional deal and it wasn't on the market for long.
You might get lucky with an offer as the "season" comes to a close.
 
8 people on board is a lot of people on board!
Many boats in the 30ft bracket will comfortably sleep two adults and a couple of kids.
I'm just not sure about those additional four people - it will be quite a crowd for anything less than a short trip.
 
I have an Orkney Orkadian and can concur that 8 people would not only be extremely uncomfortable but would also exceed the max people/weight onboard. Two could overnight in comfort, kids under canvas in the cockpit maybe but U.K. weather...?

Can’t help but think you’re being a mite ‘optomistic’ in your requirements v budget.
 
Murv said:
A Princess 30DS would probably just about fit the bill, you'd need a twin diesel on shafts to be a viable option (running costs and performance wise.)
One sold at the club recently for a shade over your budget, although that was probably a bit of an exceptional deal and it wasn't on the market for long.
You might get lucky with an offer as the "season" comes to a close.
Click to expand...

thats a good 'shout' Murv
Recently been teaching a Guy on one
It has two D3 Volvos fitted to it not that long ago
Man who fitted them spent loads on it and lost a packet
Been on it about 4/5 times in some 'snot' I might add
Coped fine
Clever roomy layout for its day
Proper build quality
We had 6 on board once
That was enough IMHO
I would own one though
But 15K?
Hard to find a nice one with enough 'engine' to motor along at 16 kts though I think
 
Oh god, I have no idea how i managed to delete my two walls of text last time, I probably shouldn't have used my mobile.

It's a shame that the Hardy would be too small, I suppose I can always hope to trade up to a bigger one in the future.

I love the look of the Fairline Sunfury mentioned by BruceK, I've heard that older sports cruisers like that can be difficult when trying to get to the bow for anchoring etc. Would that also be the case with the fairline? Is there anything I should look out for or be wary of with these?

The Princess 30DS looks incredible, I have already started researching them in more detail. It's a bit over budget but not prohibitively so. Murv mentioned the end of the season to start looking, which I assume is prefereable to wintering when looking to sell? Is there a perfect time I should be concentrating my efforts? October?

I acknowledge the extra passengers was unrealistic and have edited the original post to move it to the nice-to-haves, but even then it's really not a priority and I didn't even consider it before writing the post.

Thanks for the replies all, I appreciate it!
 
re getting to anchor

The Offshore 31 has good access the Sunfury you need to be a bit more nimble if coming from the cockpit. You do have the option of coming up through the front hatch though. Not ideal admittedly but it's the price of maximising the cockpit width
 
Kawasaki said:
thats a good 'shout' Murv
Recently been teaching a Guy on one
It has two D3 Volvos fitted to it not that long ago
Man who fitted them spent loads on it and lost a packet
Been on it about 4/5 times in some 'snot' I might add
Coped fine
Clever roomy layout for its day
Proper build quality
We had 6 on board once
That was enough IMHO
I would own one though
But 15K?
Hard to find a nice one with enough 'engine' to motor along at 16 kts though I think
Click to expand...

It is a big ask!
But, the one at the club had twin Volvo's and was happy cruising at 16-18 knots and was an extremely well sorted boat. That was listed at (and sold for) £18K - no offers.
It was an exceptionally good deal but does show that it may be viable.



As far as a best time to search goes, I don't really think there is one. But, the boat market will slow over Winter and if someone is faced with another £5K bill for another years mooring fees, a realistic seller might be tempted to drop that from the price straight off and bring the final price a bit closer. Cheeky offers cost nothing and you may well get lucky.
Do be aware that lot of these boats were offered with outdrives. I know the debates rage long and hard on here about them but on this age of boat they're going to be an issue.
Another couple at the club upgraded to a 30DS with an outdrive(s) a couple of years ago. They actually got on far better than we did with ours as they usually managed to get out of the river, but invariably needed a tow back or repairs carried out where they were. He is an engineer (albeit automotive) and last time I spoke to him he said the thing had broken them mentally and financially and they were giving up boating.
Hopefully not, but I haven't seen them at the club for over a Year now. :(
Our first boat with an outdrive was an unmitigated disaster (search for my threads on here about it if you ever get bored!)
We're now into our third year of ownership with the replacement boat, elderly but twin diesels on shafts, and have totted up over 365 hours with no drive issues whatsoever.
I'm sure outdrives are great in some circumstances, but on an old boat, shafts is where it's at.

Very best of luck, the good folk on here will be able to offer advice with any potential purchase.
 
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Channel Island 22 would fit the bill, karzy, kitchen , comfortable double and kids adventuring under the tent. Very seaworthy and good cruise speed in the higher powered versions. Some about in your bracket and quite a few have been repowered by now, all shaft and diesel. 8 people on any Small boat is quite a lot, even if capable, probably get on your nerves.
 
I've seen a Princess 30DS that's well in budget, however shes on twin Diesel Volvo 75hp shafts, that seems pretty underpowered for a boat that size? Is this perhaps an inland chugger?

I never realised outdrives could be so much hassle, it would seem most of the boats in budget have 'em. I'm not particularly mechanically minded, should I dismiss outdrive power completely or just be careful? Any tips in this regard would be gratefully received.

Thanks for the suggestion on the Channel Island 22, I love those almost as much as the Hardys. Unfortunately, SWMBO has vetoed them as we're yet to see one with an interior that meets her comfort/trim standards. :rolleyes:
 
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30Ds is a great boat for what the OP is looking for, avoid at all costs the sports tent boats tippy horrible only usable on flat fine days boasting hobbit accomodation, impractical showboats.Sunny days only otherwise , just camping on water.
Many first timers go down this route a mirage not practicality. :)

The little Hardy is comfortable coastal happy boat but even the Hardy 25 is probably only a 2 person boat for anything other than a day out. Bought one back from the Thames to the Medway not long ago, owner quickly sold it on as too small for a couple and P/Xd for a Broom .

Loads of 30DS around and definately worth investigation.The 2 x 80HP version should still give you 10 knots under most conditions.
Just remember under NO circumstances Petrol and if at all possible avoid outdrives.
It can actually be an advantage to have a pair of outdrives......one of the them might still work long enough to get you back home to face the bills.
 
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You talk such snot Oldgit :D Just because you had a lemon that exceeded even your advanced years and it bit you simply because it was old and tired and well past it's prime and you just couldn't bring yourself to accept that fact doesn't make this a golden rule. Personally I favour a canopy, so much more versatile. And if you insist on paddling a waterlogged log you can well smile at how solidly she sits in the water even if the paddling is hard going. :D :encouragement:
 
Old, unloved outdrives can be a headache, but nothing insurmountable. I have been boating on outdrives for 20 years without a single failure, only regular servicing. This year alone I have cruised about 1000 miles and clocked up about 60 hours and that is on a pair of 21 year old Volvo's. The fuel I have saved over 20 years would buy me a pair of brand new drives if both of them suddenly go pop. In all likelihood, if one fails I will overhaul it, or get someone else to do it and it will cost me a couple of grand. Getting 2.2mpg, rather than 1.2ish in a shaft drive boat, has saved me a couple of grand this year alone. Go shaft drive by all means, for simplicity and ease of servicing, but for the ability to dry out/operate in shallow water and fuel economy, you can't beat drives. Just don't make the mistake that Old Git and Merv made, which is to buy something with really old and unloved drives on the back, otherwise you will end up bitter and twisted too :D
 
Drying out and shallow water is a very good point, the Haven estuary can be very shallow in the upper reaches which is where I'll probably be starting out. When I graduate to more coastal stuff most of the nearby harbours dry out.

Judging my where this thread is going, my lack of mechanical experience has me a bit concerned. I'm assuming a survey is a must regardless of my choice, do they look at the mechanical aspects or is it more like an MOT?
 
Most surveys will just cover the hull and lightly touch the engines and drives. It's best to get a separate survey on the engines and drives if this is the case, and better yet by the marine engineer you will use going forward. However the bitter pill that you must accept when buying a boat of this age is there is no guarantees and what was fine today may go pop tomorrow and probably will. Buying into the hobby with a cheap boat just gets you on to the water quicker. The bills are the same and because its old more frequent. You could very easily spend your buying budget in maintenance within the first couple of years of ownership and it doesn't necessarily get any better either. Those are the hard facts, the next one is can you then afford it. If not then you need to realign your expectations and perhaps review Glen's suggestion of the 4x2 which will be significantly less financially risky and more manageable. Those are the hard facts I'm afraid.
 
Surveys actually don't look very deep into the mechanicals at all. In your situation, I would want a separate mechanical inspection, but finding the right person t do it will be difficult. Someone like Volvo Paul from these forums may be able to help or advise.

If you are not mechanically minded, shafts are definitely worth considering. Outdrives need regular servicing and, if you can't do it yourself, your service bill gets much bigger. It's almost like having another engine in terms of cost.
 
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