First 27.7 lifting keel

[WorcesterMan]

We had a good friend with the lift keel 27.7 around 2010 and having a smaller lift keel Hunter Delta 25 at the time I was very interested in the design and went on the boat a few times. I recall that it has most of its righting moment in a lead bulb at the end of the keel that can not be retracted into the hull. This means that on a mooring with the lift keel up it still has pretty good righting moment and in the shelter of Poole harbour I would not hesitate to leave it on a mooring with the keel up. The Hull shape also has a fair amount of hull form stability. We used to leave our Delta 25 on a drying mooring in Chichester harbour with the keel up and that was considerably less stable than a first 27.7!
One thing you want to avoid is hitting the bottom with the keel half up, this wedges the keel in the slot and makes it very hard to free it. Our friends discovered that the hard way!
I know of at least 1 other lift keel First 27.7 that runs out of Parkstone so you may be able to find the owner of that boat if you try for more information.

Thank you, that's really helpful. As it happens, I've just spoken to the other owner in Parkstone and it was him who raised the question about leaving it floating on the mooring with everything retracted. I think you have reassured me on that point.
A more nagging question is how flexible the boat would be when cruising: the draught is 2.15m with the keel down, and I'm advised that we shouldn't be sailing with it up. We sail in the Poole -> Solent area and that would mean that we need to down sails and start motor very early. We have had great fun sailing our Beneteau First 211 inside the harbours at Poole and Christchurch and I wouldn't like to lose that freedom.

 

[Tranona]

2.1m is less of a constraint than you may think in this area. All the channels are deep water and draft only becomes an issue if you like sailing close to the edge - for example tacking up a channel or wanting to explore the backwaters. I expect you will find you easily adjust to the constraints as the bigger boat opens up other possibilities. I would hazard a guess that most of the boats in Poole now are deep(er) fixed keels, partly because of size and partly because of the reduction in shallow moorings. I bought a typical Poole boat in 1980 with 2'6" draft and bilge plates and rarely used the shallow water ability because the boat was equally suitable for deeper water cruising. In 1992 I removed the bilge plates and deepened the keel to just over 1m. Since then I have had boats with 1.5m draft. The last one I chose the shallower draft only because it meant I could use East Looe at low water. However if I were making the decision now I would choose the 2m draft version because on balance the performance advantage I think outweighs the rarely used shallow draft advantage.

 

[seumask]

Thank you, that's really helpful. As it happens, I've just spoken to the other owner in Parkstone and it was him who raised the question about leaving it floating on the mooring with everything retracted. I think you have reassured me on that point.
A more nagging question is how flexible the boat would be when cruising: the draught is 2.15m with the keel down, and I'm advised that we shouldn't be sailing with it up. We sail in the Poole -> Solent area and that would mean that we need to down sails and start motor very early. We have had great fun sailing our Beneteau First 211 inside the harbours at Poole and Christchurch and I wouldn't like to lose that freedom.

There are plenty of boats sailing in the Poole -> Solent areas with drafts greater than 2.1m and as you say not a good idea to sail with the keel dangling and not locked down. So I recon your sailing area is a little more restricted but you have a very useful get out of jail card with the lifting keel and rudder if you do make a mistake and park it on the putty accidentally. Do watch out for maneuvering with the keel up, the boat is much less responsive to the rudder input as it does not have the keel to pivot around, the the bows will be blown off easily in any wind. Its not a big issue but you need to account for it's maneuvering being quite different with the keel up.
However I suspect you'll love the big increase in accommodation and some increase in performance from the 211 ;-)

 

[WorcesterMan]

There are plenty of boats sailing in the Poole -> Solent areas with drafts greater than 2.1m and as you say not a good idea to sail with the keel dangling and not locked down. So I recon your sailing area is a little more restricted but you have a very useful get out of jail card with the lifting keel and rudder if you do make a mistake and park it on the putty accidentally. Do watch out for maneuvering with the keel up, the boat is much less responsive to the rudder input as it does not have the keel to pivot around, the the bows will be blown off easily in any wind. Its not a big issue but you need to account for it's maneuvering being quite different with the keel up.
However I suspect you'll love the big increase in accommodation and some increase in performance from the 211 ;-)

That's really helpful. I wonder whether any modifications are possible which would allow a part-way position for the keel to be stable for downwind or in-harbour manouvering.

 

[WorcesterMan]

There are plenty of boats sailing in the Poole -> Solent areas with drafts greater than 2.1m and as you say not a good idea to sail with the keel dangling and not locked down. So I recon your sailing area is a little more restricted but you have a very useful get out of jail card with the lifting keel and rudder if you do make a mistake and park it on the putty accidentally. Do watch out for maneuvering with the keel up, the boat is much less responsive to the rudder input as it does not have the keel to pivot around, the the bows will be blown off easily in any wind. Its not a big issue but you need to account for it's maneuvering being quite different with the keel up.
However I suspect you'll love the big increase in accommodation and some increase in performance from the 211 ;-)

Thank you. We do enjoy tacking up channels and the back waters of Poole harbour, Christchurch, Keyhaven etc. but as you say this will open new opportunities which is the whole point. We tend to be weekenders and range on a faster boat would allow us to go further. I suspect we would be limited to motoring up the river into Beaulieu rather than sailing, for example.

 

[seumask]

Thank you. We do enjoy tacking up channels and the back waters of Poole harbour, Christchurch, Keyhaven etc. but as you say this will open new opportunities which is the whole point. We tend to be weekenders and range on a faster boat would allow us to go further. I suspect we would be limited to motoring up the river into Beaulieu rather than sailing, for example.

I suspect your only going to motor if your in a rush and there is not enough wind! We still sail up the river Beaulieu in our now fixed 2M keel, until the wind disappears keeping an eye on the depth, only occasionally at Springs low tide are we careful or reluctant to go across the shallow entrance with charted depth of around 1.2 m. We don't now venture into Christchurch harbour! but I would do in the 27.7 keel up in flatter seastates.
With a bigger boat you'll be able to take a decent inflatable tender and or paddleboards with you to explore the shallower part's while you are anchored somewhere a little deeper!
IIRC with the keel up the 27.7 draws about 1.0M which can get you some nice spots in interesting area's if your adventurous, and with good performance cross Channel to the Channel Islands and Britany coast which become real options if you have the time. We sold the Delta to get a Westerly Fulmar with bilge keels to allow continued " Drying out" exploration. In hind site we only parked it up on beaches or shallow spots a handful of times in the first few years before we changed up again to a larger fin keel Yacht and we should have just gone for a fin keel Yacht as we really enjoyed the channel crossing option in Britany and the Channel Islands and many lovely places to anchor.

 

[WorcesterMan]

I suspect your only going to motor if your in a rush and there is not enough wind! We still sail up the river Beaulieu in our now fixed 2M keel, until the wind disappears keeping an eye on the depth, only occasionally at Springs low tide are we careful or reluctant to go across the shallow entrance with charted depth of around 1.2 m. We don't now venture into Christchurch harbour! but I would do in the 27.7 keel up in flatter seastates.
With a bigger boat you'll be able to take a decent inflatable tender and or paddleboards with you to explore the shallower part's while you are anchored somewhere a little deeper!
IIRC with the keel up the 27.7 draws about 1.0M which can get you some nice spots in interesting area's if your adventurous, and with good performance cross Channel to the Channel Islands and Britany coast which become real options if you have the time. We sold the Delta to get a Westerly Fulmar with bilge keels to allow continued " Drying out" exploration. In hind site we only parked it up on beaches or shallow spots a handful of times in the first few years before we changed up again to a larger fin keel Yacht and we should have just gone for a fin keel Yacht as we really enjoyed the channel crossing option in Britany and the Channel Islands and many lovely places to anchor.

I think the 27.7 has another 6"/15 cm of depth (2.15m) compared to your 2m but that is very helpful, thank you

 

[Telstar26]

Just get a Parker 275 and stop worrying! They're fine with the keel up.

A couple here: For Sale

 

[WorcesterMan]

I suspect your only going to motor if your in a rush and there is not enough wind! We still sail up the river Beaulieu in our now fixed 2M keel, until the wind disappears keeping an eye on the depth, only occasionally at Springs low tide are we careful or reluctant to go across the shallow entrance with charted depth of around 1.2 m. We don't now venture into Christchurch harbour! but I would do in the 27.7 keel up in flatter seastates.
With a bigger boat you'll be able to take a decent inflatable tender and or paddleboards with you to explore the shallower part's while you are anchored somewhere a little deeper!
IIRC with the keel up the 27.7 draws about 1.0M which can get you some nice spots in interesting area's if your adventurous, and with good performance cross Channel to the Channel Islands and Britany coast which become real options if you have the time. We sold the Delta to get a Westerly Fulmar with bilge keels to allow continued " Drying out" exploration. In hind site we only parked it up on beaches or shallow spots a handful of times in the first few years before we changed up again to a larger fin keel Yacht and we should have just gone for a fin keel Yacht as we really enjoyed the channel crossing option in Britany and the Channel Islands and many lovely places to anchor.

Thank you all. Subject to survey, I’m now the proud purchaser of a Beneteau 27.7 (with a partner).

 

[Jemima Puddleduck]

HI, I'm just looking at purchasing a Delta 25 and keeping it at Dell Quay. Where did you moor yours?

 

[seumask]

HI, I'm just looking at purchasing a Delta 25 and keeping it at Dell Quay. Where did you moor yours?

Hi ours was moored on the Hayling Island sailing club moorings next to the harbour mouth on the most westerly of the mooring lines running to the north which dried at low tide. Our boat was " Bluebell" and has been at Mengham for many years where it was moored a bit further into the Harbour on the western side. Dell Quay is arguably moor sheltered than where we had her moored.
If your interested I'm pretty sure HISC has some moorings avaliable this summer.

 

[Jemima Puddleduck]

Hi ours was moored on the Hayling Island sailing club moorings next to the harbour mouth on the most westerly of the mooring lines running to the north which dried at low tide. Our boat was " Bluebell" and has been at Mengham for many years where it was moored a bit further into the Harbour on the western side. Dell Quay is arguably moor sheltered than where we had her moored.
If your interested I'm pretty sure HISC has some moorings avaliable this summer.

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. I live in E.Sussex so Dell Quay is closer to me and I can get there in about an hour. Hayling Island will be 1:30 min (with no traffic). I was looking for a Hunter Medina but I've found a Delta 25 that needs plenty of TLC but will do for my needs. I need to sort out the electrics. I'll look at the forum for other posts for small craft solar panel/battery set up. I was hoping I could find a small, inexpensive, LiFePO4 battery

 

[seumask]

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. I live in E.Sussex so Dell Quay is closer to me and I can get there in about an hour. Hayling Island will be 1:30 min (with no traffic). I was looking for a Hunter Medina but I've found a Delta 25 that needs plenty of TLC but will do for my needs. I need to sort out the electrics. I'll look at the forum for other posts for small craft solar panel/battery set up. I was hoping I could find a small, inexpensive, LiFePO4 battery

We had both a Medina (1st yacht ,1 year only) and then the Hunter Delta for around 10 years. Definitely go for a Delta over a Medina. We had a young family and the space on the Delta was much better and she was an exceedingly good sailboat. We did many 2 week holidays in her down to the west county and 1 year cross channel to the Channel Islands.
Don't over complicate the electric's, you could get away with none for sailing in the daylight hours.
We had no operating wind speed most of the time we had her. Depth was the only useful instrument. Navigation was on hand held GPS, these days on Navionics on phones is much better. We had nav lights, cabin lights, a cigarette lighter socket for charging phones and a 100W solar panel to keep the 100 AH Lead Acid battery healthy and a battery charger for marina use.
A good friend ran a Hunter Delta with a small compressor fridge! (he was a fridge engineer) Same as above but 200W of solar Panel, we were keen to use up his cold beer and wine!!
Don't bother connecting outboard charging circuit, they are generally a real faff and puny Amps.

 

[Jemima Puddleduck]

We had both a Medina (1st yacht ,1 year only) and then the Hunter Delta for around 10 years. Definitely go for a Delta over a Medina. We had a young family and the space on the Delta was much better and she was an exceedingly good sailboat. We did many 2 week holidays in her down to the west county and 1 year cross channel to the Channel Islands.
Don't over complicate the electric's, you could get away with none for sailing in the daylight hours.
We had no operating wind speed most of the time we had her. Depth was the only useful instrument. Navigation was on hand held GPS, these days on Navionics on phones is much better. We had nav lights, cabin lights, a cigarette lighter socket for charging phones and a 100W solar panel to keep the 100 AH Lead Acid battery healthy and a battery charger for marina use.
A good friend ran a Hunter Delta with a small compressor fridge! (he was a fridge engineer) Same as above but 200W of solar Panel, we were keen to use up his cold beer and wine!!
Don't bother connecting outboard charging circuit, they are generally a real faff and puny Amps.

thanks. i most certainly want to keep it simple and sweet . much appreciated

 

[Jemima Puddleduck]

We did many 2 week holidays in her down to the west county and 1 year cross channel to the Channel Islands.

did you have a autotiller to sail to the channel islands?
they only reason i need one “now “is that i’ll have to sail the boat back from the thames estuary to Chichester harbour on my own. I reckon its a good 60 hours of solid sailing on my own

 

[seumask]

did you have a autotiller to sail to the channel islands?
they only reason i need one “now “is that i’ll have to sail the boat back from the thames estuary to Chichester harbour on my own. I reckon its a good 60 hours of solid sailing on my own

Good point about the tiller pilot, I had forgotten! We did have one of those, actually a rather good one from raymarine with a separate brain and sensor , the equivalent to today's Raymarine Evolution Tiller pilot system. That was capable of sailing the boat down wind in F5 planning at up to 10 Knots. You wont need that system and could easily get away with the ST100 or equivalent.
We transported our boat by road back from the Wirral where we purchased her and I would seriously consider that. The boat was moved on a HIAB lorry on the cradle it came with. That's probably less expensive than a good tiller pilot! We raised and lowered the mast with a wooden A frame, but if you have a HIAB to hand that would be much easier. We did buy a trailer and kept her at home in the winters, so that could be an option for you as well.

 

[Jemima Puddleduck]

Good point about the tiller pilot, I had forgotten! We did have one of those, actually a rather good one from raymarine with a separate brain and sensor , the equivalent to today's Raymarine Evolution Tiller pilot system. That was capable of sailing the boat down wind in F5 planning at up to 10 Knots. You wont need that system and could easily get away with the ST100 or equivalent.
We transported our boat by road back from the Wirral where we purchased her and I would seriously consider that. The boat was moved on a HIAB lorry on the cradle it came with. That's probably less expensive than a good tiller pilot! We raised and lowered the mast with a wooden A frame, but if you have a HIAB to hand that would be much easier. We did buy a trailer and kept her at home in the winters, so that could be an option for you as well.

Thanks for all the excellent advise. I had thought of transporting her by road, but I thought I'd have at least a autopilot left at the end of it that I can use for any long passages I may do (it gives me options) and I wouldn't mind the experience of sailing her back, get to know the boat as well. Unfortunately I don't have off street parking of any land I can use, so she will have to sit on the mud throughtout the year. But at least I can clean her hull, inspect her and antifoul her easily and for little cost.