yachtorion
Well-Known Member
Looks like it may have been badly packed.
Firing off old life Jackets
- Thread starter dylanwinter
- Start date
Looks like it may have been badly packed.
yachtorion
Well-Known Member
This thread has scared me slightly. If this sample is represenative (though I hope it isn't) then it seems that most people are running round with 10 year old+ (and therefore life expired) unserviced lifejackets.
You don't need a highly organised mind or to follow some complex onerous procedure, just roughly once a year or so take a look at the jackets. Blow them up, leave them a while, let them down again. Change anything that's reached end of life - including the entire jacket. Whether it's a pump or by mouth or cylinder, not so important in comparison to just doing some kind of check. Follow the packing instructions reasonably carefully.
If you can remember to pay the mooring bill you can remember to do that.
This is about just basic looking after of your own and your crew's safety.
It's not hard and in the grand scheme of boat ownership, not expensive. There shouldn't need to be any excuses.
You don't need a highly organised mind or to follow some complex onerous procedure, just roughly once a year or so take a look at the jackets. Blow them up, leave them a while, let them down again. Change anything that's reached end of life - including the entire jacket. Whether it's a pump or by mouth or cylinder, not so important in comparison to just doing some kind of check. Follow the packing instructions reasonably carefully.
If you can remember to pay the mooring bill you can remember to do that.
This is about just basic looking after of your own and your crew's safety.
It's not hard and in the grand scheme of boat ownership, not expensive. There shouldn't need to be any excuses.
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McKimm
Member
yachtorion
Well-Known Member
I realise that, and what a good plan it turned out to be. But there are posts on this thread with less tested jackets. But in any case, a jacket that reaches 10 is likely to be outside it's design life and ready for the skip, unless someone else knows of a brand of jackets with a longer life.
I'm sorry if I sound like I'm on a soap box - I deliberately avoided posting in the last couple of lifejacket threads for the reason that I thought I would - and I certainly don't think I know anything most other people on here don't.... but I just wanted to push back on the attitude that sometimes seems, perhaps only my perception, to shine through (not from your post McKimm) that basic safety is too much like hard work and not for real sailors.
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salinia
Well-Known Member
Your GF has a very infectious laugh, we enjoyed watching your video,thanks
here is another video an instructor is giving his safety instructions to the crew when his....well take a look very funny.McKimm
Member
True, no point putting the small cost of a refill over safety!
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
brand new
as the man said in the video
this is brand new
and the thing fell apart when he tried firing it
you could replace yours every year and still have yours fail
l
you could test it by inflating and refolding every year and carefully weighing the cylinder
but unless you fire it once by hand and once by dunking it in the water you are not really testing it
is it possible that by disturbing the mechanisms by amateur testing you are actually increasing the chance of failure?
Are the professionals any better at it than us amatuers?
I wonder if there are stats for the failure rate on new self inflators v old ones
does anyone have a url?
how many of us are using equipment, new, old, tested or not that is going to fail when we need it?
the more I think about it the more I like the idea of flotherchoc
Dylan
apologies to jellylegs for posting and asking questions on forums
Your GF has a very infectious laugh, we enjoyed watching your video,thanks
as the man said in the video
this is brand new
and the thing fell apart when he tried firing it
you could replace yours every year and still have yours fail
l
you could test it by inflating and refolding every year and carefully weighing the cylinder
but unless you fire it once by hand and once by dunking it in the water you are not really testing it
is it possible that by disturbing the mechanisms by amateur testing you are actually increasing the chance of failure?
Are the professionals any better at it than us amatuers?
I wonder if there are stats for the failure rate on new self inflators v old ones
does anyone have a url?
how many of us are using equipment, new, old, tested or not that is going to fail when we need it?
the more I think about it the more I like the idea of flotherchoc
Dylan
apologies to jellylegs for posting and asking questions on forums
david_bagshaw
Well-Known Member
Jacket testing
Daughter & I had the conversation the other day, so life jackets out and manually inflated, left to rest 24 hours........
Beaufort 1974 2 off perfect (manual inflation only)
crewsaver 1992 2 off perfect. (manual and non auto gas)
of the 2, the beaufort looks looks as if it will be still holding air long after its occupant has rotted away
She said, well inreality, you need a hood to survive, as most fatalities drown through spray inhalation. I suspect she has a point there.
Daughter & I had the conversation the other day, so life jackets out and manually inflated, left to rest 24 hours........
Beaufort 1974 2 off perfect (manual inflation only)
crewsaver 1992 2 off perfect. (manual and non auto gas)
of the 2, the beaufort looks looks as if it will be still holding air long after its occupant has rotted away
She said, well inreality, you need a hood to survive, as most fatalities drown through spray inhalation. I suspect she has a point there.
Simondjuk
Well-Known Member
Whenever I come across a jacket which has a time expired firing mechanism I fire it.
I don't know how many I've fired, but it's a good few, and I've never had one fail to inflate properly to date.
I don't know how many I've fired, but it's a good few, and I've never had one fail to inflate properly to date.
wadget
Well-Known Member
Yes but if someone posted a video of their 15 year old car breaking down after admitting that they had never serviced or maintained it I wouldn't feel the need to repost it because it frightened me.
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
We spent some time on the RNLI stand at the boat show which well worth it. We were told that it's not necessary to replace the cylinder as part of a service provided it is the correct weight, the seal is intact and it is not excessively corroded. The 'service pack' includes a cylinder which bumps up the price. Just get the firing mechanism (little plastic bit with the dissolve disc) which should be a couple of quid.
The problem it the lady's LJ looked to me like one of the seams had split giving insufficient pressure to burst the other velcro. This would have been seen if it had been orally inflated (probably).
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
and the one
and the one where the new one failed as well
also a waste of forum time?
probably best not to know about such things
mean time I will get stuck into a few more "where is it?" threads
Dylan
and the one where the new one failed as well
also a waste of forum time?
probably best not to know about such things
mean time I will get stuck into a few more "where is it?" threads
Dylan
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King Penguin
Well-Known Member
I've had two lifejackets fail, both were over 10 years old, both were carefully maintained each year, both inflated correctly but then went down due to glue failure (1) on the seam and (2) where the manual inflation tube enters the bladder.
One failed on a sea survival course and the other when I got my son and his mate to jump in off the boat in the marina (both bottles were rusty and I was going to replace them but before I did I got them to jump in as a bit of fun so they could see what happens when they inflated and because of the previous experience in the pool).
Both LJs were good quality makes.
My annual inspection and service now not only includes manual inflation, etc but a thorough rough handling to ensure the glue in the seams has not degraded.......and when it gets to 10 years old it, is retired.
So from my experience any LJ over 10 years old, no matter how well it has been maintained is suspect and has no place on my boat........afterall I could have lost my son if his LJ had needed to be used in an emergency.
.......and I wouldn't buy a second hand one on eBay for that reason
One failed on a sea survival course and the other when I got my son and his mate to jump in off the boat in the marina (both bottles were rusty and I was going to replace them but before I did I got them to jump in as a bit of fun so they could see what happens when they inflated and because of the previous experience in the pool).
Both LJs were good quality makes.
My annual inspection and service now not only includes manual inflation, etc but a thorough rough handling to ensure the glue in the seams has not degraded.......and when it gets to 10 years old it, is retired.
So from my experience any LJ over 10 years old, no matter how well it has been maintained is suspect and has no place on my boat........afterall I could have lost my son if his LJ had needed to be used in an emergency.
.......and I wouldn't buy a second hand one on eBay for that reason
lw395
Well-Known Member
I have heard of LJ's not working properly.
In the cases I have heard of, I put it down to excess wear and tear from people wearing the LJ regularly, like racing 3 times a week in the season for a couple of years, racing on old boats with sandy deck paint not shiny GRP.
I've seen a few manky LJ's that get worn a lot, taken ashore and locked to the tender etc.
OTOH I've known more go off at the wrong time, including one that ripped apart a mate's kit bag.
For day to day boating around the harbour or racing in the Solent, there is something to be said for a BA with no moving parts.
In the cases I have heard of, I put it down to excess wear and tear from people wearing the LJ regularly, like racing 3 times a week in the season for a couple of years, racing on old boats with sandy deck paint not shiny GRP.
I've seen a few manky LJ's that get worn a lot, taken ashore and locked to the tender etc.
OTOH I've known more go off at the wrong time, including one that ripped apart a mate's kit bag.
For day to day boating around the harbour or racing in the Solent, there is something to be said for a BA with no moving parts.
Golden Time
Well-Known Member
He says it is a new one, but as it falls off in his hand the girl crew shouts "that's why it was decommissioned". I think he was being wound up by his crew as he was a trainee instructor. Scares me that they were carrying a decommissioned LJ on board with what I assume are paying passengers?!
My 7 year old little boy is desperate for his LJ to go off. He's proud to wear it and displays it to his friends whilst telling them it will help save his life one day. He is however scared of it going off, what does it sounds or feels like. We're planning to use the annual service as a means for him to experience the LJ going off so he knows what it's like. Which I don't think is a bad thing. His LJ has the service by date stamped on the cylinder/auto inflator. I'm sure the risk of an unserviced LJ failing is much more than failing from new - especially with today's safety marks/ISO etc. I personally will be sticking to servicing it yearly as it recommends - but that's me.
Seapro have a send away service for their life jackets. http://www.seapro.co.uk/lifejacket-service.html
There has been some vids of Velcro failing to open, does the same happen with the "zipped" LJ's? Little lads LJ uses Velcro but the adult version uses a burst open zip - why the difference from the same manufacturer?
King Penguin
Well-Known Member
I encourage you to let your son experience the firing of them. Velcro/zips, doesn't matter, they'll all work OK, I've had both. On my boat, I've noticed the bottles rust more on the kids ones as they are worn more and generally get more sea water splashes.
Just remember, they don't last forever as the glue holding the bladder together degrades over time.
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doug748
Well-Known Member
grazbo
Well-Known Member
I liked the video. It was fun.
Nice couple prove what we all know - with some humour - lifejackets only work if you wear them and service them. Nothing is guaranteed.
A good reminder not to fall in the water.
Don't know why the thread has taken its usual course.
Nice couple prove what we all know - with some humour - lifejackets only work if you wear them and service them. Nothing is guaranteed.
A good reminder not to fall in the water.
Don't know why the thread has taken its usual course.
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
to qualify
it seems from some of the posts here that:
auto-inflate lifejackets only sometimes work.
whether they are new, diligently serviced or just plain old
I have been looking for failure stats on the web
- no luck with finding any yet
I am assuming that servicing them increases your chances of them going off
but Penguins post is a bit worrying
he seemed to have done all the right things and then still had them fail to fire
following on from this thread I am going to keep a couple of dinghy buoyancy aids on the boat and wear one of those when venturing out onto the foredeck rather than the (sometimes) auto-inflate ones - new, serviced or abused.
It does seem that in an effort to make them so that the bladders take up next to no room when deflated they might have gone a bit far with using flimsy materials
as for using glues that fail after ten years
or using velcro that is so tough that the bladder fails rather than the outer skin opening
seems amazing to me
Dylan
it seems from some of the posts here that:
auto-inflate lifejackets only sometimes work.
whether they are new, diligently serviced or just plain old
I have been looking for failure stats on the web
- no luck with finding any yet
I am assuming that servicing them increases your chances of them going off
but Penguins post is a bit worrying
he seemed to have done all the right things and then still had them fail to fire
following on from this thread I am going to keep a couple of dinghy buoyancy aids on the boat and wear one of those when venturing out onto the foredeck rather than the (sometimes) auto-inflate ones - new, serviced or abused.
It does seem that in an effort to make them so that the bladders take up next to no room when deflated they might have gone a bit far with using flimsy materials
as for using glues that fail after ten years
or using velcro that is so tough that the bladder fails rather than the outer skin opening
seems amazing to me
Dylan
tim_ber
Well-Known Member
Well, I am grateful for your postings and found it interesting.
Point learnt: check glue on seams of lj for integrity.
Really enjoyed the girlfriend having a laugh.
I truly believe that OLD things are often better designed and constucted than new things. I have bought old ljackets and have compared the construction with new ones. I mean I took them apart and cut the material to examine thickness and all sorts. Some of the older ones have doube bladders, they have a piece of string to tie casualties together (ok - no big deal, but manufacturers try to save pennies by not using string anymore) - this was pointed out to me by a poster on here months ago when I asked what the string was for.
Strong lifting strops on old ljackets.
That American video was disgusting. To have the mechanism ripped out shows poor construction. And the bloke was a fool - trying to blow it up when it was obvious to most people he had a 5 inch hole in the bladder.
This throw away society and one where greedy people do the minimum instead of designing decent gear to begin with is a problem.
I think it is time that people stopped being so horrible to each other on here. It used to be different.
Keep it constructive or we are all doomed.
