Firearms aboard???

craw4d2003

craw4d2003

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Does anyone out there carry fire arms aboard their boat. If so what are the laws about doing so? Would love to hear peoples views on this matter. I myself do not want to take this route, but my husband thinks it is a good idea. Let me know your thoughts.
 
Other countries have very strong views about firearms, and at best they will be confiscated on arrival in a new country, at worst not only will your firearms be locked up, but so will you.
 
Tempting tho' it may be to mount machine guns on the poop...

I worked/travelled in Turkey and the Middle East a few decades ago, and our "defensive" equipment were fire extinguishers. CO2 ones with the horn unscrewed produce a jet of choking cold gas about 30ft, and ordinary powder ones have a definite effect on the eyes at closer range. Unfortunately Halon is now no longer an extinguishant, as its long term effects on the human body are NOT beneficial.

Nothing to stop you using a B&Q-type nail gun if you are determined to end up in a fight though.

If I lived aboard now, I'd arrange a farm-type electric fencer as perimeter defence for when I was away.

Mr Slocum used tintacks effectively.
 
Carrying fire arms may make you feel safe.
If you produce them when threatened by some one else with a gun it is a sure way to get shot and probably killed your self.
You will have a split second to decide whether to pull the trigger, and you will have to because unlike the movies crooks do not raise there hands when a gun is pointed at them.
If you do shoot him, he will have a partner who will then kill you.
Stay away from known black spots lock your hatch at night if boarded in the Marina make as much noise as pos fog horn etc, do not be the only boat in the anchorage do not advertise your treasure cameras lap tops money etc.
Another thought you could end up in jail for life because the person you shot turns out not to be a thief at all.
 
We don't carry firearms, out here the bad guys tend to operate in groups of three or four - you will not win a gun battle against 4 AK47's. We take the view that our lives are more important than our possessions, we take appropriate precautions but if we were boarded we wouldn't fight - they can take what they want and we'll make an insurance claim.
As mentioned in another thread those that do fight back generally get seriously injured, either shot or chopped up with a mahete. It's your call.
 
When i arrive in Tanger a while ago,with a small 22 hand gun on board and declared it on arrival there was a huge problem!The gun was taken and i had to stay aboard in the port,while the police contacted Rabbat and "checked" it to see if it had been used recently!!Very very stressful!

Thankfully i hadent fired at seagulls sitting on the spreders (they sit there then take my boiled eggs put out to cool!!).Eventually they let me go freely where i wanted but kept the gun.They told me i could have been arrested and taken before there court in Rabbat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That rather spoilt my impression or North africa.There are millions of Brits liveing there amazingly,they seem to manage and like it!

You can buy a flat in Morroco prices start around 15000 euros!And you can buy alcoholic drinks at British owned hotels in Tangers !!
 
I was shot at, boarded and attacked by pirates armed with AK47s and other assorted weapons. There were around 15 to 20 of them. If I had a gun and fired at them I would now be dead.

Look what happened to Peter Blake.

Most importantly if you carry a gun you must be prepared to kill people. If you kill people you mainly have to stand trial and prove they were not innocent fishermen. You will be in a foreign court and end in a foreign jail having been tried for murder because if you do not open fire first you will probably get shot.

Michael
 
there is quite a bit of info on the topic - in fact this guy wrote an entire book about it:

http://www.yachtpiracy.org/en/index.htm

be sure to check the list of yachts reportedly attacked in the last ten years:

http://www.yachtpiracy.org/en/list_of_attacked_yachts.htm

three attacks were reported in 2006. so going by my complex internal reasoning mechanism (tm), i would imagine the number of yachts sailed versus the number of yachts attacked is a small number (3) against a very very large number (x).

i can attest to the fire extinguisher method: not because ive been attacked by pirates, but because it worked quite well when i was at school /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

n
 
As already said don't carry a gun, by the time you know 100% for certain that you need to use it you will be probably too late. It will also give you a very false sense of security.

It is NOT something to be used as a deterrent, unless you KNOW 110% that the other party does not have a gun and can't go and get one.

Their are people in this world who will kill you for 10 bucks, and plenty more who will do so if you give them a "reason" or make it a requirement. Waving a gun at them would fit this category..........and they will give as much thought to it as you do over stepping on an Ant. If they have the "bottle" to come aboard when they KNOW you are aboard, you are dealing with folks prepared to use violence against you.

Of course folk can get unlucky, but in general how likely it is that you will be confronted by robbers depends where you go. If you are not aware that some places are more risky than others (especially when carrying the equivalent of a neon sign saying "I am rich") then IMO you probably should stay in Kansas.

Already posted are the very good reasons for not "succesfully" using a firearm, especially abroad. You MAY be 110% in the right (possibly even under their laws), but it won't mean you not sitting somwhere not plesant for a longggggggg time waiting to prove it - whilst the bereaved family claim whoever was enroute to saint hood!
 
I thought about mounting a Boffas gun on the foredeck as she may well have carried during the war! It was only going to be made of plastic down pipe and the like!
 
[ QUOTE ]
three attacks were reported in 2006

[/ QUOTE ]

The list is seriously incomplete. For example, there were four armed robberies of yachts, over a four week period, in the Grenadines earlier this year. I suspect the data given is out by a matter of thousands of robberies.

Returning to the subject of guns, Badmans comments are spot on. The modus operandi of many of the attacks is that a fishing boat approaches and asks if you want fish/lobster and/or if you have cigarettes/alcohol/petrol to spare. The very great majority of approaches are by genuine fishermen.

However, if they are robbers before you can even answer they are on board holding weapons, you certainly wouldn't have time to get a weapon. Therefore you would need to keep a gun in the cockpit at all times.

But what do you do then - point it at every approaching boat? In a few instances in the Caribbean warning shots have worked but if you spend your time waving a gun or firing over the heads of innocent people prison is not far away. I'm not an expert on prisons but this is what the UK consulate in Venezuela has to say "lengthy prison sentences in harsh and dangerous conditions. Many prisoners carry firearms and violence is common. No additional protection is given to foreign nationals". I think you'll find the jails much the same throughout the Caribbean.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not an expert on prisons but this is what the UK consulate in Venezuela has to say "lengthy prison sentences in harsh and dangerous conditions. Many prisoners carry firearms and violence is common. No additional protection is given to foreign nationals"

[/ QUOTE ]

But what it doesn't also say is "supply your own Vaseline. Bitch" /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
I had this discussion with a French friend of mine who sailed from France, up the Orinoco and down the Amazon. This man, Jean-Francois Diné, wrote a book about the passage, and the English title is "From the Orinoco to the Amazon on a ten meter sailboat" (one of the best books I have ever read). I first met Jean-Francois sailing from Gibraltar to Marina Smir and was with him on his arrival at Smir. He always sails with a shotgun loaded with an appropriate shot and declares it on arrival and would never sail without it. This year he has sailed from Almerimar across the Med to Sardinia and down to Monastir - with his weapon declared in all harbours and he is completely open about it. He says that it has saved his life on more than one occasion.

Personally, I don't carry a firearm, for the reasons others have given here, but it is worth listening to those who do habitually carry a weapon before dismissing the idea.
 
Would seem to be against the majority of public opinion; but I would rather have one and not need it than need one and not have it.

"Aquired" an AK47 on one of my HM sponsored travels - I keep it at home nicely oiled and wrapped; and when I eventually set of into the sunset it's coming with me.
 
i wouldn't -- aside fr the problms associated with teh legality, you also need o know ow to operate and mintain. -- marine environment is very bad for firearms nd aunition --

I ued to live he US where quite a few people carry guns and this topic ae - a frind boasted he had started to carry a weapon wrapped in oil cloth.

He hadn't checked it ll seaon an wen we checked it it was very rusty

This was in Maryland so fairly humid but still not worth the hassle from a practical perspective as well as the legal and risk of it getting used on you.

carpet with tack pushed through on yr decks -- to delay/deter barefoot attackers and legit equipmet -- extinguishers boat hook and fishing gaff may deter less well armed attacker but if they have fire arms or out number then the question becomes whether you want to trade your life for the gear and money they are probably after.

a lot of people keep dummy wallets with a littel currency and an expired credit card to hand over to robbers, while the real stuff is hidden away in a concealed safe.
 
If anyone is interested there is an account of the attack on my boat by pirates on my web site. There is an awful lot of rumor and 2nd hand stories about and I think it is useful to break down the component parts of what constitutes a 'Pirate' attack.

If you talk to the Malaysia Pirate Information Centre they will describe the two main classes.

Organised Piracy in the Malacca Straights and Gulf of Aden - mainly off Somalia where Pirates rob to order. They will board merchant ships and frequently know exactly which containers have the items they are interested in. Occaisionaly they will take the entire ship - sell off the cargo and then the ship - sometimes just for scrap. These pirates are totally ruthless and generally kill all the crew. They are heavily armed including armour piercing weapons. Generally they will not attack yachts unless bored or at a 'loose' end. If they do so after the 'rape and pillage' they will normally kill everybody on board.

The second group are 'High Seas Muggers'. These are Pirates of opportunity and similar to gangs that rob and mug you in NY, London or Paris. The intention is not to kill but to take whatever valuables or cash you have on board. Frequently they are gangs of organised 'people smugglers' who are transporting 'illegals' from a poor country to a wealthy country for large sums of cash.. If they happen across a yacht then they will attack and board it. Up until recently in the Gulf of Aden they would shoot over the heads of the victim, close in and board. If there was no resistance they would generally just take money and valuable and depart. If there was resistance then they would lower their aim and shoot at the hull and crew of the boat. They are experts with their weapons, life is cheap and they will only attack in situations where they vastly outgun the victim..

A sub section of this group are opportunistic robbers. Like the people who break into a house at night and take whats available - TV, DVD, Computer etc.. Their interest is to rob you and make a clean getaway.. With this group there is a possibility of defending yourself successfully and killing them. But that's the problem... Their 'day' jobs may be that of fisherman or boatman or whatever. If you shoot them and kill them, you will end up in a court of law, in a foreign country, charged with at least using excessive force. There will be weeping mothers fathers, wives children and you might spend a long time in prison.

The worst case scenario is that a very fast long slim boat with a group of men on board comes whizzing up to you in an apparently aggressive manner.. Happens frequently. Sometimes they are even armed. What do you do. How do you tell the difference between a local official/police legitimately armed or perhaps a group of fishermen wanting to sell you fish or beg for cigarettes?

I have no problem with carrying guns - if that's what turns you n fine - life in our world is cheap.. Everybody has got to die but... I do not want to end up shot to bits because I am outnumbered or languish in some poverty stricken jail for the rest of my life because I shot the wrong person!

After the attack on my boat in the Gulf I felt it was a question of chance. Statistically about 200 yachts do the Red Sea Passage each season. Each season 1 or 2 are attacked and robbed by pirates. 100-1... Nobody got badly hurt except off Somalia. Since and incident with some American Yachts who returned fire with shotguns and rammed one of the pirate boats causing it to eventually sink the 'word' has got around apparently. The previously 'muggings' have now turned into shooting the crew first then robbing the boat.
Personally I would not go that way again.. Next time it will be round the Cape of Good Hope... I have a chance against bad weather - not a hope against 15 AK47s banging away at me..

Michael

Michael
 
There is one place you might get away with shooting robbers...although I wouldn't want to try it.

We know an English couple who have charteredd their cat out of St Vincent for over 12 years. They were boarded one night but chased off the intruder. They informed the coastguard who gave them a hard time for not shooting him (the coastguard knows them well and knows they are armed).

The following night the English couple saw the same bloke board the vessel next to them, so they called the coastguard again. After fifteen minutes there was no sign of the coastguard so they decided to get in their dinghy and chase the thief off.

He saw them coming and jumped in his own dinghy and headed towards the beach with them in hot pursuit. At this point the coastguard boat turned up and the next thing they heard was "everybody freeze" followed by the double-click of a machine gun being cocked. This was followed by bullets flying overhead as the Coastguard raked the bushes at the top of the beach, into which the thief had disappeared.

Later they found a lot of blood but the thief got away and this time they got a real rollocking from the coastguard for not shooting him themselves.

The interesting thing is that the St Vincent Prime Minister has been on television to advise the population that it would be foolish to try to rob cruisers, because they are generally armed. He went on to say that if any local person (committing a crime) is shot by a cruiser the government/police won't want anything to do with it.

Unfortunately we don't know the Prime Minister's views on health, education or fox hunting.

Out of interest the reason the skipper didn't shoot the thief was he didn't feel his life was threatened.
 
As said earlier, fire extinguishers are a reasonable defence. Flares , flare guns and spear guns are all legal and globaly accepted boating accessories which could offer the alternative use of deterent or defence. Guns in some cases may offer the do or die option but more than likely do and die. Saying that,if it's looking like ya numbers going to be up what could be more rewarding than taking as many of the bu--ers as you can with you before your rendevous with Davey Jones
 
[ QUOTE ]
"Aquired" an AK47 on one of my HM sponsored travels - I keep it at home nicely oiled and wrapped; and when I eventually set of into the sunset it's coming with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I trust home is not in the UK!

Steve
 
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